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  1. #11
    6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer FrankT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red View Post
    Good points Maxman.

    I absolutely agree it would curb that chip on the shoulder sense of entitlement that most of this generation of veterans seem to carry.
    I really find this statement offensive, now 1% of the population serves and they give up a lot and some give everything. I never see them with their hand out or begging for more...maybe that is just me but I always thank them for their service. I do see the welfare and some college folks always asking for something without serving at all.

    Vietnam Vet...Vets Helping Vets...To ALL who Serve: Thank You for your Service!
    The 6.8SPCII is the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15

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  2. #12
    50 CAL MAXman's Avatar
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    You're not wrong frank but that doesn't nagate the fact thay many of us 1%ers act like the world owes us something.

    It's not something I like too say, and a lot of times this country can't hold up thier end of what they offer(like for example mental health resources with the va). But yeah man, I've seen guys throw around veteran status when getting kicked out of a bar after last call, get out of speeding tickets, you name it. Truth is man, anyone who's served after 1975 did so of free will, with sound mind, voluntarily. If EVERYONE did their time, then there'd be no need for stolen valor. No one would ever buy a grunt style shirt. Guys like me wouldn't have too tell draft dodgers to get bent when they say "voting is a civic duty", I'd have to come up with an actual response.

    The hint here man, is both red and I are part of that one percent. I know I've lost friends in that shithole desert, and I'm confident he has also. And yes guys like him, and me, and you, we bore the weight of this nation. I'll say for myself I often feel special, and like people owe me something. But I also know that's a trap, and once you think like that you just start cutting everyone out.
    I also know that none of this will change the way people feel about their service, or what they think this country owes them. Hence why a mandatory 2 years in the army(even before a move to navy or Air Force, only exception is a voluntary 4 year contract USMC instead),every able body American, imo would curb the idea that we are special.

    Caveat, those dudes who were drafted. They faced prison time, or a jungle/the nazis. God bless those dudes, I actually do think we owe them a lot more than anyone ever offered.

  3. #13
    45 ACP
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    Nope. If I was still serving, I would want the person next to me to want to be there. Not be worried if they've got my 6.
    Buy it cheap, stack it deep

    "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." Dean Wormer

  4. #14
    45 ACP IronBeard's Avatar
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    I don't think you are gonna get the best out of someone that doesn't want to do what you are asking. Not to be confused with encouraging/pushing someone to give their best when you know they are capable. 1-2 out of a hundred conscripts might rise to the occasion, but you'll expend more effort trying to keep order and discipline than it's worth. Over 30 years I've seen that things can be bad enough with the all volunteer force. I don't see it getting better with conscripts. Although I now keep my uniform in my wallet, I do see the value of some kind of service, I just don't think the military is the place for compulsory service.

  5. #15
    6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer FrankT's Avatar
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    Maxman, I joined during the draft and did so voluntarily, So I think as much of those who volunteer today, I think they ARE owed more than they get and and are owed by a grateful Nation much more than they will ever get back. I don't understand feeling any other way.
    Vietnam Vet...Vets Helping Vets...To ALL who Serve: Thank You for your Service!
    The 6.8SPCII is the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15

    VETS for TRUMP 2020 "VICTORY"

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  7. #16
    50 CAL Red's Avatar
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    Ain’t mean to be offensive Frank but unfortunately it’s true to an extent in this generations of veterans. Not all veterans.
    Yep 1% of us have served, and if you’re a lifer like me I have years....years accumulated in dangerous areas. Lost many a brother, almost bought the farm myself more than a few times. I agree some things could be better but thanks to older generations of vets I would have to say we have it pretty good in the service.
    From what I have seen when I first joined when the war started, to now, there has big a huge change in mentality within the ranks. A lot of guys unfortunately feel they can serve 3yrs, maybe deploy, maybe not. Then get out and go to the VA for a disability claim. It’s unfortunate that so many game the system since there are those that truly need help both physically and emotionally.

    I’m just talking about my experience in what I have seen. It’s not all inclusive as some guys serve foremost for their brothers and in the bigger picture because the nation is at war.

    I myself, love the military because of being able to fight for the man to my left and right. I further enjoy serving because America is my country and when she decided to go to war I felt convicted to do my part for the country that affords me the freedoms I enjoy. I also understand that this is service and my meager contributions over the years will long be forgotten except by the guys there with me. I feel I should be compensated for injuries incurred in the line of duty, but I don’t need anything else from anyone at the moment thank God. In large part due to the great benefits while in the military.
    Having to start over when retirement comes will be an adjustment though I will likely find myself in continued service to my country in some capacity

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  9. #17
    50 CAL MAXman's Avatar
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    I hear ya frank, and I have no problem with you appreciating and wanting to support your brothers and sisters. A lot of times it seems like we are all each other have.

    Joe and ironbeard make excellent points. I've seen how much a single marine who doesn't wanna be there can tax a whole unit.
    Last edited by MAXman; 01-12-2018 at 11:11 AM.

  10. #18
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    Guess nobody here was serving when McNamara's 100,000 were still in the ranks along with draftees.

    What a bunck of fuk ups. Eventually smoothed out about 75-76.

    Drafts should be for emergency purposes because that's desperation. Of course, if you went to Canada to avoid it, a lefty president will pardon you anyway.

  11. #19
    50 CAL Red's Avatar
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    So would mandatory service be worth it if say we were at peace and the lifers could manage those that dragg ass with the only benefit being if a war was to pop off against a huge standing, well trained and equipped army, we would at least have a little bit of knowledge and numbers for the meat grinder?

    Otherwise if we waited until an emergency, we would be scrambling to train recruits that really don’t want to be there if there is a hard conventional war going on.

    It think it may be one of those catch 22 scenarios where you will get some good with bad. An all volunteer Army will get pretty chewed up in a hard war, a conscripted one as well but then you have numbers to overwhelm the enemy. Catch 22

  12. #20
    50 CAL fl57caveman's Avatar
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    Israel and Switzerland have much longer history of military service, and the service idea is ingrained in the people, it seems to work for them..


    with these snowflakes today, many 3rd generation from the 60"s and 70's hippy generation, I don't see it a benefit....

    they would die on their knees begging for their life if captured, not on their feet fighting...
    John 15:13 "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends"

    You live and learn or you don't live long....

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    FLT

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