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  • Jaxon1023

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    I have a SBR lower that I have done a few configurations of length for 5.56. I sold my last Upper with the intention of going .300blk suppressed. This is going to be a SHTF rifle so to be used in 100 yards or less. I am looking at the sandman s suppressor if I go .300blk. I just wanted to get to some input from you guys on which way would you go. Stay 5.56 unsuppressed and spend the can money on an ACOG or .300blk suppressed with a cheaper red dot (aimpoint or MRO)
     

    BIG B

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    I just finished my SHTF rifle not to long ago and went 14.5 in 5.56. Have been looking at maybe doing another 14.5 with a Sandman K. But have also been kicking around the idea of a 10.5 inch 300 blk. Lots of choices and good set ups to choose from.
     

    Dan1612

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    I've done all of the above and ended up with Suppressed 556 SBR with a 1-6x as my go-to. It's not discernibly slower than a red dot up close, and can tap anything out to 500 yards fairly quickly and easily once you learn your holds. You should be able to grab a 1-4x for about the same as a good red dot and be able to run it out to 400 easily. I believe the variable low power has killed the red dot, unless it'll never ever be shot outside of 100 yards.
    I really like 300 blk, it's stupid quiet with subs, but the ballistics make it useless on anything but paper, think skinny 45 acp fmj. Supers are fantastic, but are as loud as 556, and more expensive, even in fmj which is not much better than x39 ball ballistically. The only time 300blk really wins is with Barnes bullets, but they're expensive and relatively rare. There are also good solid copper and soft point bullets in 223/556 that work well in SBRs.
    As far as SHTF, or in general really, I prefer a 556 to 300blk supers, and a reliable 9mm sub gun with jhp to 300blk subs.
    There are also some SWEET dedicated 556 K cans on the market right now. Or you can do like me and grab a relatively short 308 can with which you can run both and go back and forth.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    Given the parameters in your OP my opinion is this - - -> A 10.5" - 12.5" upper chambered in 5.56 with a 1:7 twist bbl.
    Buy the appropriate amount of M855 green tip ammo (one brand,milspec). This is the only ammo you will ever need.
    A small red dot sight. The high tech,50,000 hr batt models. Flip down open sights that cowitness perfectly. Make sure the rear appature is to your likeing.
    A muzzle device appropriate for a can,or if no can,a linear brake.
    The lower should be the "pistol" type. With a shockwave type blade or a Sig SB-15 brace. Trigger should be good but does not have to be great. A user F&B'ed and properly lubed with grease should work fine. Pins polished to a chrome like shine also. Ambi safety and large double eared charging handle. Carrier AND bolt should be NiB or melonite treated.
    The apporpriate single point sling should be added with quick disconnect. (I really hate to see people using a carbine with sling dangling. Leave sling around your neck if it is not supporting the weapon.) ---- SAWMAN
     
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    Dan1612

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    ^ He already has an SBR lower
    11-12 is perfect.
    I agree on NiB, and they're $99 at Brownells right now.
    I don't understand single point slings, they seem a bit dangly.
     
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    Little Jack

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    Either will do the job. You can game whatever scenario you want where one we'll give you an advantage over the other. You just need to be aware of what each will or won't do depending on your setup.

    If you're going short and suppressed, I'd go 300. If you're going 16", I'd go 556. I'm not discounting 556 from a 10.5" or longer barrel but the shorter barrel has a much greater effect on 556 then the 300. I don't see the draw to 300 in a long barrel for defensive use. The heavier bullet and relatively smaller case capacity of the 300 doesn't make for a quick/flat trajectory, but it'll do the job with more energy at distance. Personally, I think of 300 as 200yd or less. Some have said they've had success hunting past that.

    Specialized/high performance bullets can be had in both. Those are all expensive. What are you most likely to use/shoot/carry? How do the mid tier/ bulk ammo perform in both options? Cost? Generally 300 is going to cost more.

    The 300 is quiet. I'd rather have 220grs at 1000fps than 147. Until I see a lot of good data on subsonic 147 beating out subsonic 220, I'm sticking with the 220. Bigger mass is the only place to get more energy when your velocity is limited. The Russians did it better with their 9x39. You don't have the quiet option with the 556. I love my PCCs but when I sit down and think about it, a 300sbr wins everytime (over the PCC).

    I like my red dots. I'm confident in my ability to hit a man sized target at 200+ yds with a gun I've got dialed in. I've messed with the variable power scopes and sometimes it's nice to have the magnification but I've found most of them to be large/heavy and the illuminated reticles tend to be dim in daylight and the battery life relatively short. If you plan on shooting zombies in the head at 300yds, you may want the 6 or 8x.

    Single point slings excel in providing a quick transition from shoulder to shoulder. That's about it. With that said, my sling setup allows me to do dual or single point. Front and rear attach with a qd/mount on or around the buffer plate. Options are nice.

    This is America..... Get both if you can.

    The above is all my experience/opinion. I play gijoe at the range once a month and in my garage nightly. Take it FWIW.
     

    Jaxon1023

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    Thank you all for the input. It’s greatly appreciated. I’m leaning a lot towards the 300 setup.
     

    Jester896

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    I like my BLK SBR. It is a Billet Seekins with a 10.5 FN CHF CL barrel. I am not sure which is louder, the action noise, the brass hitting the ground, or the loud thump of the 210 or 220 SMK at 100 yds. My can has multi use and is a Old Thompson. It has a Sparc on top co-witnessed by Troy. I do believe that the firing pin, bolt, and maybe the carrier are NiB. Currently has a DD collapsible buttstock. Still can't make up my mind if I want that fixed. I run V-Tacs on most everything...I still like the jewels the way they are...kneecaps too.

    I am happy shooting paper to drill for when excrement hits the rotating ventilator. Not really sure I would want to hunt with it...most likely would use supers and that puppy spits brass in the never recover range...and if you find it, it is bent. I do know that I wouldn't want to send BATFE a letter ever time I wanted to change calibers.

    Picked up several K LC pulls that the necks were damage and already primed. Cut them with my saw, necked them and finished trimming with a Dillon trimmer, then through the BLK dies...easypezzy. 8# of A1680 goes a long way using 10.2 gr.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    In a SHTF situation what ammo will be more available to be found,stolen,or kill for ?? What ammo can you carry the most of ?? IF you have to buy it,which ammo will be cheaper ?? Why would you even consider using,and carring around a surpressor ?? Long,heavy,dirty for the gun,etc.
    For your ammo stash,have factory. No reloads. Buy some Roy's and seal your primers and necks. You will not need more than you can carry or maybe several small stashes of no more than you can carry. You and your family will need to stay extremely mobile. NO place is defendable. 1000rds max. Most likely 500 or so is all you will ever need. Forget that Zombie shit. That's for the little boys.
    Your weapon will be your single most important item you own. Carry some small parts for it. If you and others in your group carry firearms . . . carry the exact same one.
    Mental toughness will be a food provider and a lifesaver for you and your family. ---- SAWMAN
     

    Little Jack

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    In a SHTF situation what ammo will be more available to be found,stolen,or kill for ?? What ammo can you carry the most of ?? IF you have to buy it,which ammo will be cheaper ?? Why would you even consider using,and carring around a surpressor ?? Long,heavy,dirty for the gun,etc.
    For your ammo stash,have factory. No reloads. Buy some Roy's and seal your primers and necks. You will not need more than you can carry or maybe several small stashes of no more than you can carry. You and your family will need to stay extremely mobile. NO place is defendable. 1000rds max. Most likely 500 or so is all you will ever need. Forget that Zombie shit. That's for the little boys.
    Your weapon will be your single most important item you own. Carry some small parts for it. If you and others in your group carry firearms . . . carry the exact same one.
    Mental toughness will be a food provider and a lifesaver for you and your family. ---- SAWMAN

    22lr it is then!!
     

    Dan1612

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    The 300 is quiet. I'd rather have 220grs at 1000fps than 147. Until I see a lot of good data on subsonic 147 beating out subsonic 220, I'm sticking with the 220. Bigger mass is the only place to get more energy when your velocity is limited. The Russians did it better with their 9x39. You don't have the quiet option with the 556. I love my PCCs but when I sit down and think about it, a 300sbr wins everytime (over the PCC).

    I like my red dots. I'm confident in my ability to hit a man sized target at 200+ yds with a gun I've got dialed in. I've messed with the variable power scopes and sometimes it's nice to have the magnification but I've found most of them to be large/heavy and the illuminated reticles tend to be dim in daylight and the battery life relatively short. If you plan on shooting zombies in the head at 300yds, you may want the 6 or 8x.

    Single point slings excel in providing a quick transition from shoulder to shoulder. That's about it. With that said, my sling setup allows me to do dual or single point. Front and rear attach with a qd/mount on or around the buffer plate. Options are nice.
    300 Subs do have more energy, but they'll pass through without depositing very much energy at all. A 147 9mm Hollow Point should spread wide open and deposit most of its energy. Expanding 300 subs are a different story, but they're quite rare.
    Leupold and vortex 1-?x are daylight bright, but you're right about the battery life. If that's a concern, there's Trijicon.
    Shoulder transitions make sense, I hadn't thought of that, a 2 to one point convertible makes sense, but mounting to the end plate is a bad idea.
     
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    Little Jack

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    300 Subs do have more energy, but they'll pass through without depositing very much energy at all. A 147 9mm Hollow Point should spread wide open and deposit most of its energy. Expanding 300 subs are a different story, but they're quite rare.
    Leupold and vortex 1-?x are daylight bright, but you're right about the battery life. If that's a concern, there's Trijicon.
    Shoulder transitions make sense, I hadn't thought of that, a 2 to one point convertible makes sense, but mounting to the end plate is a bad idea.

    There are options for expanding (lehigh, blackout, and one other I can't remember). Guys have had success on hogs at close range with the Amax and some others. IF it "ice picks", you are correct. Subsonic is a poor choice for hunting/SD. You need to know what your gun can do and use it accordingly. I'd still take a 300sub (with good shot placement) over a PCC. Either way, the 556 doesn't have the option. If you want to shoot heavy/quiet bullets the 300 will let you. If you wanted to do it with the 556, you'll need another gun.

    pray tell, about the mounting plate.
     

    Dan1612

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    Lehigh is good stuff, but it's unobtanium, especially if we're talking SHTF.
    Funny thing is essentially we're talking 230ish grain vs 147 grain, and we know that discussion never ends. Fmj vs fmj or hp vs hp 230 (or 220) wins all day but again, a reliably expanding 300 sub is hard to come by. So I take the 147 +P.
    It is nice to have the option though as 300 gives you. Hunting, Id take 300 supers all day.
    I'd also take 300 over 556 as a truck gun. While sawman's 855s do get steel past sheetmetal, there's just no comparison. So as a dedicated hunting setup (with good supers) or truck gun 300 wins, but for general or SHTF type setup, it's 5.56 for me. Or 9mm if it needs to be quiet.

    I've personally seen a mounting plate attached sling move the plate and release the detent which went and got stuck in the trigger group, shutting down the gun. It happened to a forum member in Biloxi. So while convenient, I think it's an unnecessary risk when there are plenty of other places to put a sling mount.

    Apologies to OP, we've now turned it into a hypothetical ballistics discussion when he's already chosen his path. Lol.
     
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    Little Jack

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    Lehigh is good stuff, but it's unobtanium, especially if we're talking SHTF.
    Funny thing is essentially we're talking 230ish grain vs 147 grain, and we know that discussion never ends. Fmj vs fmj or hp vs hp 230 (or 220) wins all day but again, a reliably expanding 300 sub is hard to come by. So I take the 147 +P.
    It is nice to have the option though as 300 gives you. Hunting, Id take 300 supers all day.
    I've personally seen a mounting plate attached sling move the plate and release the detent which went and got stuck in the trigger group, shutting down the gun. So while convenient, I think it's an unnecessary risk.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    If you don't have your 147gr +p before the shtf, you'll be in the same boat as someone looking for the Lehigh. I'll give that you're MUCH more likely to find the 147 than the Lehigh but I don't think counting on restocking exactly what you need after the shtf is a decent option either. You're more likely to find the "common" military calibers if you're scrounging but after you've shot whatever it is you can carry with your 223/308/300blk loadout, what happens when you have to scrounge off of a bunch of AK fan boys? You're shtf gun is what you're going to start with but I'd expect your going to use whatever ammo AND weapons you can find of it comes to that.

    Can't tell if outlaw(that's the other one) has them in stock. Blackout bullets is in stock. Get them now BEFORE the shtf!!

    How did the detent go from the hole on the back of the receiver, into the gun, without the takedown pin coming out and the upper opening? That seems like some next level stuff.
     
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    I just finished my SHTF rifle not to long ago and went 14.5 in 5.56. Have been looking at maybe doing another 14.5 with a Sandman K. But have also been kicking around the idea of a 10.5 inch 300 blk. Lots of choices and good set ups to choose from.

    For my SHTF AR, I went with a 14.5" carbine in 5.56. I have a wide variety of 5.56 ammo that I can choose from.

    CHuVbGl.jpg
     

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