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  • Bay Ranger

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    WOW! Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me. There's a lot more in y'alls post than I ever thought about. You've probably keep me from making an ignorant persons mistake. I'll keep monitoring this thread as I try to learn more.
     

    Red

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    Let us know what you end up with man. Run a few hundred through and give us your thoughts. Fresh point of view never hurts regardless of experience level.
     

    Bay Ranger

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    Will do.

    I've been searching WASR for sale. Doesn't seem to be very many available. I did find some that had a welded muzzle crown(?) that prohibits one from installing a muzzle brake.
     

    JoeCorrado

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    I'm pretty sure WASR's have dried up again. Only ones I've seen for sale online don't have a bayonet lug, threaded barrel or cleaning rod. Grand scheme of things they don't make or break a rifle but if you want it to look proper, they're must haves. Keep your eyes open because they do pop up for sale on the private market from time to time. Just don't over pay. It's a buyers market. Not a sellers market. WASR is probably the best starter rifle that's still imported. You pay a little more but Atlantic Firearms has good quality control on what they sell. Great customer service and they offer layaway. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them if I was buying new.
     

    Cstokes91

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    Yeah, Atlantic Firearms does pretty good QC so is pretty good to buy from. Also, if you go into Gulf Coast Guns in Pace and say you want to order it then it'll only take a few days and it'll be there (and I think most would do that).
     

    Bay Ranger

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    I checked Atlantic yesterday and they were out of the WASRs, as was Buds, Prepper, Classic and one other.

    As was recommended, I think I am going to get a WASR. I want an entry level AK and that appears to be the way to go.
     

    Bay Ranger

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    How do you guys rate the N-PAP against the WASR?

    If I remember correctly, doesn't the YUGO need special furniture? Does that matter?
     

    Cstokes91

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    How do you guys rate the N-PAP against the WASR?

    If I remember correctly, doesn't the YUGO need special furniture? Does that matter?
    They are both solid AKs. Usually the NPAP is around 100 to 200 cheaper, has a little better furniture and finish imo but does not take the standard AK furniture.

    The WASR has a chrome lined barrel which will have a little more longevity and will handle corrosive ammo better. It also has standard AK furniture so you can swap out the furniture pretty easily.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
     

    Bay Ranger

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    I was looking at the Atlantic Firearms web site today and I looked at their Blackheart AK. Unlike others (say the WASR) it seems to have mostly American parts, although they do say that it has Romanian parts. Unless I misread the description, it doesn't say what the parts are. Per y'alls past advice you said to go COMBLOC. Is this Blackheart not as "good" as say the WASR?
     

    Bay Ranger

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    I was looking at the Atlantic Firearms web site today and I looked at their Blackheart AK. Unlike others (say the WASR) it seems to have mostly American parts, although they do say that it has Romanian parts. Unless I misread the description, it doesn't say what the parts are. Per y'alls past advice you said to go COMBLOC. Is this Blackheart not as "good" as say the WASR?

    I did see that they offer lifetime warranty
     

    Fear21

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    I was looking at the Atlantic Firearms web site today and I looked at their Blackheart AK. Unlike others (say the WASR) it seems to have mostly American parts, although they do say that it has Romanian parts. Unless I misread the description, it doesn't say what the parts are. Per y'alls past advice you said to go COMBLOC. Is this Blackheart not as "good" as say the WASR?

    I did see that they offer lifetime warranty

    There isn't a whole lot out there on Blackheart, but from what I understand they are Romanian parts kit builds. What all they replace, I have no idea. Kit builds can be hit or miss - they can be great, or they can be a POS. Depends on who built it and how.

    Honestly, if you want to avoid headaches replacing this and that because it's starting to look worn out after just 500 rounds, get the Combloc. If you end up not liking AKs, a factory built Combloc will sell way faster than a kit build. If you do like it, you'll have the peace of mind that you have solid components on a solid rifle.
     

    Bay Ranger

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    Fear, when you say factory built Combloc do you mean originally fully built in the old Combloc? So, for example, the Century is assembled in the U.S. from Romanian and U.S. components so the it is 922-R compliant. I assume that is what you call a kit gun. I thought that all AKs have to be 922-R compliant unless the are completely made in the U.S., something like a Palmetto State rifle, or were imported befor the 922-R law took effect. So, a fully manufactured Combloc AK would be illegal to import under today's laws.

    Please forgive me these very basic questions. I'm trying to learn and piece this all together.
     

    Fear21

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    Fear, when you say factory built Combloc do you mean originally fully built in the old Combloc? So, for example, the Century is assembled in the U.S. from Romanian and U.S. components so the it is 922-R compliant. I assume that is what you call a kit gun. I thought that all AKs have to be 922-R compliant unless the are completely made in the U.S., something like a Palmetto State rifle, or were imported befor the 922-R law took effect. So, a fully manufactured Combloc AK would be illegal to import under today's laws.

    Please forgive me these very basic questions. I'm trying to learn and piece this all together.

    No problem, it can be confusing sometimes. The WASR example is like this - all the main components are factory made (trunnions, bolt carrier, bolt, receiver, barrel, FSB / RSB / gas block). Century replaces the furniture and the trigger group. Stock, pistol grip, and handguards count as three 922R parts, while the trigger group counts as three as well (trigger / hammer / disconnector). The muzzle device and gas piston are also sometimes used as 922R parts, but IIRC with these latest WASRs it's the furniture and trigger group.

    Another example is the Arsenal SLR series. They do the same thing (combloc in all the important areas), while replacing the furniture and trigger group.

    All the important guts of the rifle are factory made over in the former USSR - in other words, the guys that have it down. Provided you don't get a vodka Friday special, the worst thing you'll need to worry about is the possibility of canted barrel components, which can be fixed easily or left alone.

    As far as kit builds - generally, a kit build will have a US made receiver and barrel populated with combloc parts. The receiver and barrel take up two 922R parts. You can get builds or kits with the original barrel, but these go for more money. Kit builds aren't necessarily a bad thing, but you need to know what you're looking at.
     

    Bay Ranger

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    Thanks, Fear, that makes it more clear. So as long as the critical components (receiver, bolt, barrel, etc) are Comblock I am good - as far as potential resale.

    One more question.I see rifles annotated with WASR, O-PAP, N-PAP, etc. I do not see anything like that marked on the rifle. What does that refer to and how are these models different? Since they are not marked on the rifle how do I know what is a WASR, what is an N-PAP, etc?

    Thanks for hanging in there with me on all my questions.

    Oh, is there a goos source n-line that I can read to get questions like this answered? Kinda like AK For Dummies?
     

    Fear21

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    Thanks, Fear, that makes it more clear. So as long as the critical components (receiver, bolt, barrel, etc) are Comblock I am good - as far as potential resale.

    One more question.I see rifles annotated with WASR, O-PAP, N-PAP, etc. I do not see anything like that marked on the rifle. What does that refer to and how are these models different? Since they are not marked on the rifle how do I know what is a WASR, what is an N-PAP, etc?

    Thanks for hanging in there with me on all my questions.

    Oh, is there a goos source n-line that I can read to get questions like this answered? Kinda like AK For Dummies?

    WASR, NPAP and OPAP are all model designations. The WASR is a Romanian AKM pattern rifle, while the NPAP and OPAP are based on the Yugo / Serbian M70 design. The PAP rifles utilize proprietary furniture and have a few oddities about them. The OPAP has a reinforced front trunnion, similar to what you'd find on an RPK. The NPAP is just a standard Serbian pattern rifle; some PAP rifles might have rifle grenade sights installed, and IIRC all have reinforced dust covers (two buttons to release rather than the AKM's one button). OPAPs are built like tanks and could probably stand getting run over by one. NPAPs, eh... if you want a Serb rifle, I'd go with the OPAP if you can find one. They're no longer imported.

    Also - it's not just resale value that you're getting with combloc rifles, it's parts quality more than anything.

    As for "AK for dummies" - register at the AK Files. They have multiple sections with thousands of threads, more information than you'll ever be able to read on AKs. There's also a marketplace stuffed full of parts and accessories. You can find really good deals on there. FYI, they're a bit more lax with rules there; people can generally run around being a giant jerk and not much will happen to them unless they cross certain lines. Go with a thick skin, expect to be razzed a little as the "newbie" and you'll be fine.
     

    Bay Ranger

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    Fear, thanks for the response and being patient with the "grasshopper's" questions. I took a quick look at the AKFILES web site and I plan to register and try and wade my way through it.

    I really appreciate your help and trying to bring me up to speed. This site and, in particular, many members are a great source of knowledge and assistance. You've helped me along to make a better buying decision.
     

    Fear21

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    No problem Bay Ranger. Happy to help. Good luck with your search - and beware, AKs are like crack.
     
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