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Thinking about going longer - suggestions?

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  • RussSurfs

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    Right now my few rifles are AR style. I have been thinking about getting some type of bolt gun to shoot longer. Possibly in 6.5 creedmoor. So far the longest I have shot is 350 yards with my 18" AR. I would like to work up to 1000 yard - just because... I was listening to a 3 Gun Show podcast a couple weeks ago and the guest was talking about just using his 18" JP 3 gun AR to shoot out to 1,000 yards by just changing his scope. I need a left handed rifle so the options are fewer. I think my options are: 1) Keep shooting the AR until I outgrow what it can hit (maybe add a better scope). 2) AR 10 style rifle in 6.5 creedmoor 3) Bolt gun in 6.5 creedmoor. I know there are a lot of experts on here - your thoughts?
     

    SAWMAN

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    There will be(should be)some different opinions here on the OP. Since Russ did not state specifically if he planned to hunt with this gun/scope combo,I will assume he plans to punch paper or ring steel ONLY.
    First - -> don't have tunnel vision when it comes to the chambering. ESPECIALLY if you will consider a bolt gun. I really do not understand this 6.5Creedmoor thing going on,but hey,to each their own.
    For these longer distances that you talk about shooting you will need to dig thru the loading manuals or go online with the powder manufacturer's for their ballistics tables. You will need to know bullet speed and ballistic coefficient (B.C.). You will want to launch a bullet that stays supersonic(1080fps)out to 1000yds.
    Second - -> Reload ?? You didn't say. ( Info in - info out) Reloading will give you quite a few other options. Choices of chamberings,bullets,speeds and most of all . . accuracy. It will also save you money if you plan to shoot alot.
    Third - -> Chamberings . . . there are really not any choices in the 223/5.56 sized AR. (IMO)In the 308 sized AR there are a bunch. In bolt guns there are a ton. Consider the 308Win. Easy to load for,tons of bullet choices,super cheap brass,etc,etc. Another choice would be the 7mm-08,260Rem,then up to the 30-'06,300Win Mag and beyond. In between there a whole bunch of others. I would even consider the 243Win with the heavy (100gr+) bullets.
    Fourth - -> Scope . . . budget for an "expensive" scope. I would say . . $700+ in the least. 20MOA base. Quality rings that are trued and lapped.
    Fifth - -> Support equipment. Adjustable cradle frontbag,rabbit eared rear bag. Spotting scope. Super stable bench and chair. Etc,etc,etc.
    There are tons of variations to my above. "Long range" (>600yds) shooting is a science. It will take quite a bit of reading and learning. I am not an expert although I have dabbled in the sport. It is involved and somewhat technical.
    Sixth - -> Weapon . . heavy bbl,heavy gun, <3lb trigger which could be an added expense.
    Best of luck in this adventure. Keep us posted on how it's going. Any questions,there are many here that can help. --- SAWMAN
     
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    oneshot

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    Bill you do a lot better at putting things in words then I can. It took me a long time to get in to the 6.5 creedmore one of the reason is the recoil and it makes the FPS at 1000 yds. To the OP if you want to come and try a couple of things, I got a lot of help in my younger and older days and so willing to pass it along. Just wish I know as much as sawman. just call. just my 5 cents jj
     

    SAWMAN

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    Hey . . . everything that I know jj taught me. He is just to old to remember it.
    Now your embarrassed because you own a 6.5C aren't you ??
    - - - - - > Russ, you really (REALLY !!) ought to take jj up on his offer. In fact . . . how great would it be if jj held a mini class on some longer range stuff designed for the "so-so" shooter. Remember guys . . . if you want to shoot "long range" and don't have a place to do it,simply reduce the size of your target appropriately. We used to shoot at a man sized silhouette target,reduced to 1/3 size at 300yds. Not so much for the wind and mirage, but for the holdovers and target turret practice.
    We need to lobby jj to have this class.
    I will help with RSO . . . BUT THAT'S IT. --- SAWMAN
     

    wildrider666

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    Good info above, more on the topic at Link. A person must also evaluate his current abilites and potential verses the level of results desired. A person can buy a race car but few can drive it to its full limits. The more you train and practice the better results. Many of us have seen big bucks dropped on a sub-MOA weapon system and the guy says its junk because he can only hold 3 inch groups, Lol. I think its best to slide into long range shooting casually (using what you own) and see what results you get. 1K Yards seems to be the shiny object people want to jump on but realistically, going out in increments will serve you better. You need to define what the "current level" of results you want to achieve, hitting a 3ft plate or in the 10X Ring. A great optic is your best dollar investment at this stage and you can move between firearms as your needs progress. A mildot reticle (there are two types of "dots") will allow more precise hold-over technique. All the hardware and training issues boil down to one thing: achieving a repeatable POA/POI. The wildcard is the environmental conditions you must overcome on the fly. Reloading can surpass factory match loads because you will not just go for consistent loads but tailor them to your firearm.

    Buy a couple different boxes of Match ammo, start with a clean gun. Fire a fouling round (any round) then see what type it likes best. Now stretch its legs and find its limits. You may catch the long range bug and wisely invest more time and money. If it was easy, more people would be doing it.

    Good Luck





    http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/forumdisplay.php?45-Long-Range-Shooting
     

    Dan1612

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    I'd get a CORE membership first to make the endeavor worthwhile.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    barebones1

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    come on out Russ. my 2 gun "jp" ar runs out to 700 with cheap 55 grain ammo. 1 x8 burris scope. just went 10 for 10 @ Charlie 7 last week. ask JJ about ringing the bell at 800 with factory 55 grain 223 ammo. I just loaded up some 69 grain bthp that should ring at 1000 from 24inch/night force. I have other if you would like to try some out rpr in 6.5 / 308 and 243. And m24/R700 clones in 308 and 300 rum for the "mile stuff" 8x32 nightforce and burris 6 x40 fclass xtr. guest fee is $30 I would be happy to make a day of it. I go once a week anyway. I have seen you rifle, what optic are you running now? I`m sure we could get JJ to come have some fun too.
     

    Jester896

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    Lots of good advice posted here
    your 6.5 has some of the best BC running I think.. and that may be the main reason so many are using them. As far a Creed or .260...I would consider the Creed if you didn't reload because of the large variety of available loads.. and the .260 if you do reload. 6mms are OK but boolit weight will make it a little on the difficult side for you if your skill level isn't there yet. Recoil is pretty much a not issue with those choices too.
    Optics and bases are a very important choice. I have run a 4.5-14X40 with a 1" tube out to 1K. You are also going to start running out of come ups around this point too with a scope like that...even on a 20MOA base. You will also start having a great deal of difficulty when you get out to around 900...bullet strikes can be tough to spot.
    One of my friends daughter successfully runs her Mossberg Patriot out in the 6,7,800 range but her dad was a USMC Scout/Sniper. She doesn't do it with 55s like some of the more experienced folks here, she uses 75s and again, has one of the finest spotters I know. The point of that is to let you know you already have the start of your equipment whether it is a AR platform or a bolt gun configuration. The key for you will be practice and building your confidence level.
    Once you have done a great deal of that you will be able to recognize the short comings of what ever you are using and have solid knowledge on where to go next.
    Aim Small Miss Small like was mentioned earlier...if you are limited in range decrease your target size...they make clay targets in several sizes, mini, midi, and regular. The regular ones are just under 1 MOA @ 500 yards and the circle in the center is just under .5MOA...and reactionary :D

    Dry Fire...Dry Fire...Dry Fire
     

    wildrider666

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    Forgot to mention uee a Shot Log. It should have most of the date points you need to track. Call your Shot, number and mark where you think it hit at time of release and be you own critic: pulled, jerked, rushed, couldn't hold breath, wind gust, whatever. Also when it feels right! Compare to actual results. This is a interactive learning tool and progress record.
     

    RussSurfs

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    I have only been shooting a few years. I started with a hand me down bullseye gun and had no idea what I was doing or shooting. When I came across this forum I was welcomed and given tons of great advice like what you are sharing above. In the last few years I have met so many great people at different matches and ranges locally. I had no idea the shooting community would be such a welcoming group that loves to help newbies like me.

    I will be calling JJ and taking a trip with barebones to Core. Thanks for all the great feedback.
     

    RussSurfs

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    If I was going to look for a scope that I could use on my AR for now and then transfer over, approximately what specs would I be looking for. Jest mentioned a 4.5 -14x40. I’m sure there are lots of options. My other scopes are almost all Vortex, so that is probably what I would like to stick with but I am open.
     

    SAWMAN

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    In my humble opinion - - -> Don't even think about this yet. Go to CORE and take a look at the equipment used to shoot (and hit) 600yds+.
    Ask respecfully if there is anyone that will allow you to take several shots waaaay out yonder. If not,at least look thru their scope at the targets,note what scope it was,and ask the price.
    Go slow with this. Be realistic. Count up the cost before you get partially into it and stop.
    I cannot stress this enough -> 300yds is far. 600yds is semi speciality stuff time. 1000yds is sell a kidney time.
    Not saying don't get into this . . . just be realistic about it,every step of the way. --- SAWMAN
     

    benchrest

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    not tryin to talk u out of the long range game but as sawman said do plenty of research on the cost of steppin out farther. its a lot of fun but the cost associated with the distance can be more than some are willing to spend. glass becomes expensive and while u can get by with a cheaper scale for 1 or 200 yards 600 and especially 1000 requires more precision and that precise measurement cost a good deal more. gun handling that doesn't affect that much at shorter ranges will have a dramatic affect at 1000 or a mile,even at 600. ive seen people get into long range on the cheap and when they don't get the desired results just give up. remember without spending the money your 1/4 minute groups at 100 wont be 1/4 minute at 600 or 1000. also learning the hardest aspect of long range doesn't cost a thing and that is the wind, hope this helps
     

    Jhunter

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    Your AR is capable of hitting targets out to 1000yds. The most frustrating part of long range is weeding out variables that are causing misses. There are a few dozen variables when it comes to making an impact. Using quality trustworthy gear will save a you a huge headache in the long run. I would suggest starting with a quality scope and mount and you will rule out several of the variables before you even start.
     

    Jester896

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    Jest mentioned a 4.5 -14x40.

    Yikes!...yeah... I mentioned it but you won't like it @ 1K...no problems really out to 600

    If you are consistantly holding a .25MOA group at 100 now.... if you are consistent you should be able to shoot .25MOA at 4 and 600 yards it will just measure respectively 1" and 1.5"...something to work too.

    What Vortex scopes do you have? The question really is what reticle they have. Are they open or capped.

    something I have only seen lightly touched on in reticles and that was Mils. Are you contemplating measuring with your reticle?

    SAWMAN's advice to... go...try...look at...is some pretty sage stuff.
     

    oneshot

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    If you really are wanting to get in to this start learning be for you start spending, now this is the old man coming out, get off of F?B, until you have got your hands on things YOU want start learning , I have had to learn a lot the hard way and have shot with some of and met some of the top shooters in the sport, and still took me a while to learn what they were saying. It took doing it. So your mine will under stand what you are being told. OK Bill it your turn, you put things in to better words . JUst my 10 cents. jj You can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink.
     
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