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What distance to zero HD carbine?
- Thread starter FUPAGUNT
- Start date
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Little Jack
Master
Good advice. As mentioned earlier, I brought up height over bore and the offset involved. For "good enough", that distance could be considered negligible. If the OP was looking for as much precision as possible, that couple to several inches could be a factor, particularly at closer distances where the issue is more pronounced.
If all you're concerned with is hits (not placement) on a torso sized target within 20yds why bother sighting in at all?
I'm a little surprised at the above. You teach this stuff right? Do you teach only "good enough"? You're the expert so my opinion and lack of training cert is only worth whatever you want it to be but the little bit of training that I've been allowed to attend and the little bit of gijoe I play at Jerome's every couple of months, the HOB has been discussed and shown itself to be a factor when precision is concerned. Some don't have the benefit of shooting a lot. I've seen shooters who didn't have a clue how HOB worked and didn't understand why they couldn't hit what they were aiming at. Again a few inches at 20 yards and closer may not be an issue depending on what you're required level of precision is. If I'm zeroing any thing, personally (again for whatever you think that's worth) I want it to be as precise as I can get it with all the known factors so that when I'm off, I know it's me and not the gun.
Ultimately, as has been said before, zero at whatever distance you want, just know how that distance plays into POA/POI and know what your gun does.
I'll stand by my comments. If you're taking the time on an unobstructed (non-hostage) COM shot to worry about HOB you're needlessly wasting time when the accuracy of your weapon is within the size of your target. A human adult heart is approximately 5" tall, 3.5" wide and 2" thick. If you hold on the center of it ignoring HOB you will still be on target from 0-100 meters just as I pointed out. You will also still be within the thoracic cavity out to 150 meters.
As to your question about teaching "only good enough"; I teach people to not reach paralysis by analysis by being reaching a point of balance between speed and accuracy. One inch groups mean nothing if it takes you a minute to get them while taking accurate fire and conversely rapid fire does you no good if you can't hit what you're aiming at, so you need to find a balance and know when you need to or can slow down for more accuracy or speed up to be faster than an opponent. You need to know how fast you can go and still get good hits, you need to know at what distances which fundamentals you can ignore and which ones always apply, you need to know how you shoot with a heart rate about 150 etc. Once you've pulled a gun and shots are going both ways your life has been reduced to fractions of seconds and inches; how you balance those fractions is going to be dictated by your training and practice. You won't rise to the occasion, but will sink to your level of training. I'm pretty sure JJ teaches a similar philosophy.
I don't believe I said anything about not being as accurate as possible while zeroing or shooting in general nor did I say to not know your dope or what your "gun does".
I'm not really sure where/why the sarcastic tone came from in your post, but if I'm reading your post incorrectly my apologies.
Little Jack
Master
I understand the speed vs accuracy situation. It's not ideal to sacrifice one for the other. In a perfect world, we'd all have time to be well practiced so that we'd have both. Your post, while not completely discounting accuracy, seemed to deride any concerns for the difference in POA and POI wrt HOB. In the time to the OP has to prep before speed comes to the forefront, I would argue that precision would be a concern and that speed would come with that practice. Extreme precision and hostage scenarios are a small statistical probability for the OP, or any other person concerned with HD, but some information and a little practice can go a long way in real world results. This thread seemed to be all in with "point at bad guy, pull trigger, good enough".
There was no sarcasm in my post. Just seeking clarification as to why you, in my perception, swept aside a fairly easy concept that can have, what I believe, a significant impact on POI at close ranges.
As you stand by your comments,. I'll stand by mine. If you are truly concerned with zeroing your firearm, HOB is something to take into account and understand.
I'm an instructor by trade and understand not oveer thinking situations but at the same time, I make an effort to explain to my students the nuances of what we do and why they matter. You can get a helicopter "in the zone" or you can get it "on the spot". It's my hope that, when it matters, that the person has the capability and understanding to know which (speed or accuracy, in either case we're discussing) is the more important of the two.
There is a big difference between what I said "You'll be within the vitals" vs. just point at and shoot which is not what I said. I don't think we're in disagreement. I think it's important, just not the most important depending on the situation. I'm really not sure where the disconnect is.
Little Jack
Master
Agreed.
As easy as it is to "talk" over the internet, it can be difficult to communicate. I don't think HOB is the end all be all but should be considered (along with desired use, ammo, required precision etc) when zeroing.
FrankT
6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer
I have a 556 I never use and have not sighted in, it has a red dot and iron sights. I bet I can hit a person at 25 or even 50 yards given the first 3 rds from a 30 rd mag. I keep 10 mags loaded and surely in the house and less than 10 yards or in the yard at 25 yards, sooner or later I will hit a man size target..If I need a more accurate rd or for more distance I will pull out one of my Four 6.8 sighted in rifles.
I guess sooner or later I will sight it in but for HD I am not in a hurry and since I got it just to have one I think it will do, so what do you think? Shotgun is loaded next to it...lol
I guess sooner or later I will sight it in but for HD I am not in a hurry and since I got it just to have one I think it will do, so what do you think? Shotgun is loaded next to it...lol
budbreak96
Expert
Sighting in a firearm for HD is kind of strange to me...A nice, small shotgun, 12ga, 20ga, 410, etc.. in my opinion is the best HD gun period. For me at my home, @ 2,000sq ft. somewhere around 1/2 acre lot if I have a threat and have to handle it and I cant do it with a Browning A-5 semi-auto shotgun then I guess I deserve what I get. Most likely in a HD style situation once they hear that 12ga go off and shit flying everywhere "including their pants" I don't think they will be sticking around to see if your aim is good enough to hit them in the eye, throat, ear, heart, balls, etc...most likely they are going to be trying to get out of there as fast as possible.
