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When is it too late to refuse an FFL transfer?

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  • garryj

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    Does anyone know at what point during an FFL transfer does the firearm become yours and therefore too late to refuse possession? Is it when you fill out and sign the ATF Form 4473 or when the transfer request is sent to the FBI for approval? I would think it would be when the transfer request is approved. I ask because the last time I did one, the woman doing the transfer would not let me handle the firearm until the transfer was complete, thus it was too late to refuse possession. Obviously, I will request she change this policy or I will find another FFL transfer location.

    Garry
     

    Va boy

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    My guess is until you take possession of the gun and leave their premises, you can refuse. At any time, you can say no, pick up your form and go. You're probably going to pay their transfer fee, call-in fee, shipping both ways and not be welcome back, but they aren't going to make you take it. If you bought it online, you might pay a restocking fee or whatever the selling company's policy is. I've never heard of an FFL not letting you handle and inspect before completing the transaction. Find another FFL
     

    TK5o

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    Can you share the business or at least this one employee so others can avoud this hassle
     

    Dan1612

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    That's ridiculous! Who was it?


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    Murfpcola

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    I have bought a couple guns recently online. One from Kentucky Gun Co and one from Buds. I remember one of them said to inspect the gun when I first got to my FFl to make sure it was in the condition described.

    That place must be a hassle to shop at if you have to do a background check for every gun on the wall that you want to look at. If what you are saying is the whole truth then I would tell where this was at.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Could the FFL possibly have "inspected" it before you got there ?? Did they tell you the stores policy when the weapon was ordered ??
    One of our local FFL's would know more . . but just guessing . . their is adsolutely no law that makes it illegal/unlawful to inspect/handle the weapon as long as you did not leave the premises.
    If it was a female in a gunstore in the P'cola area,I could pretty much tell you what shop/store it
    was.
    If you do not post the FFL,could you please explain why you would rather not. Thanks . . . . . ---SAWMAN
     

    Dan1612

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    I've had stuff damaged in transit. ALWAYS inspect before transfer. In fact, inspect before putting ink on paper.


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    garryj

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    I didn't tell the name of the business because I suspect this is just something the female employee pulled out of her ass as a "I'm in charge" type of thing. I will find out if it is the store's policy and, if it is, I WILL post name and location.

    Garry
     
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    I'm not very busy as a dealer, so I don't have a problem doing a lot of work for "customers" - but, if I was busy, and I received a gun for transfer, log it in, customer comes in and inspects the gun, and says "send it back", what compensation do I receive? Do I charge a transfer fee to send the gun back? Do I make the customer box it up, label the box, fill out the shipping paperwork, log the gun back out, and wait for the UPS/Fed-ex/USPS truck? Do I make the customer give me estimated shipping costs? I think I would have to have some written policy for customers prior to receiving guns for transfer, if I was a high volume gun store, and trying to make a living.
     

    Little Jack

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    I'm not very busy as a dealer, so I don't have a problem doing a lot of work for "customers" - but, if I was busy, and I received a gun for transfer, log it in, customer comes in and inspects the gun, and says "send it back", what compensation do I receive? Do I charge a transfer fee to send the gun back? Do I make the customer box it up, label the box, fill out the shipping paperwork, log the gun back out, and wait for the UPS/Fed-ex/USPS truck? Do I make the customer give me estimated shipping costs? I think I would have to have some written policy for customers prior to receiving guns for transfer, if I was a high volume gun store, and trying to make a living.

    That'd be store policy. If there was something wrong with the gun due to manufacturing or damage in transit, I'd assume(I know) the seller/shipper would pick up the fees. If the buyer just changed their mind, that'd be on the buyer. PERSONALLY, for a change of mind, I'd charge them my transfer fee(minus the background fee if one wasn't done) plus shipping if it wasn't being covered. In my mind, the footwork that goes along with getting it back to the original seller is part of the "transfer"

    I'll caveat the above with realizing that each situation is unique. I'm willing to work with a customer but I'm not going to take it in the shorts for something that wasn't my fault.

    To the OP. As the buyer, I'd say you could walk away from the transfer at any time but you'll be on the hook for whatever fees (return shipping, FDLE etc) are incurred. If a gun shows up at a shop and you don't pick it up, they're not going to put money out of pocket to get it back to the seller. I've not looked since I got my license and it's not been a factor for me but I think I remember something along the lines of after 90 days the shop can do what they want with the gun. Don't quote me, I'll have to research that. If any of the other FFLs out there know and can point to the regs, it'd be appreciated.
     

    Kanaloa

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    I've been told on quite a few occasions by receiving FFLs (from several states) to make sure you inspect the gun BEFORE you fill out the paperwork. Once a transfer occurs, then you own the gun and problems. I trust those FFLS, and I stay away from FFLs that don't bother to remind me. They know the deal. I've only returned one gun, and that was because the dealer sent me the wrong gun. The FFL was very helpful in giving advice on options. I paid him one transfer fee for his services (mailing back the box). The retail store acknowledged their mistake and returned my money plus transfer fee, and paid return shipping. Lessons learned: 1. Buy from reputable dealers. 2. Know their return policy. 3. Pay with a credit card so you have some recourse. 4.Only use FFLs that have your best interest (the OP's FFL didn't).

    I am interested to hear an experts view if there is a law that governs the transfer (and acceptance), or is it just store policies.

    To the OP - you should post the name of your FFL, so that other forum members are informed of the best local operators. If that's the store policy, then I'm sure the store would want us to know it up front. (if they are customer oriented)
     
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    Cootcommander

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    Legally, I don't believe filling out a 4473 means anything. Guns are not registered in FL and the only record of a transfer is on the 4473 and the FFLs A&D, these forms are only kept by the FFL for inspection by the ATF.

    The retailer the purchase was made from may have a policy that would prohibit or penalize the return of a transferred firearm, but that would be between you and them

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    wildrider666

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    IMHO, transfer and purchase are two different things. If YOU buy and pay on line: you have made a purchase. Your local FFL only facilitates that action. Once a FFL recieves a firearm on behalf of a individual (normally coordinated in advance), the FFL is entitled to the transfer fee. If the firearm is unacceptable, it is the purchasers responsibility to contact the seller for remediation though the FFL may assist with conformation of what was received and condition. Many on line retailers have notes near the specific firearm picture that say thing like not actual firearm, manufactures change specs, blah blah. A lot of problems come from people ordering by the picture and not by the correct model part number or incorrectly picked the wrong caliber. Good sellers normally give a three day right of refusal for defect or product does not match invoice order. Buyers should know sellers return policy BEFORE the purchase.

    I never heard of a FFL/Shop that would not let you inspect the firearm before completing the paperwork! This runs counter to above seller right of refusal policy. They could be pushing for trans in and trans out fees.

    Purchase is technically different from delivery/ownership. Buy on line, fail background check: no delivery/ownership. If you pass the check and the FFL logs disposition as transfer: YOU own it and it becomes a "used gun". Even in States without registration the gun will trace to you. If the FFL logs disposition as returned to retailer the firearm remains "new". Once you own it and want to return it, the FFL makes a new log entry to cover receipt and return transfer. The good news is the vast majority of FFL gladly work with you.

    Note: time = money. A FFL makes a money on a routine transfer. If they are burning the clock trying to fix a problem with YOUR purchase you should compensate for that time with a $ tip or other shop purchases.

    I'm not a FFL or paid spokesperson. Lol
     

    donr101395

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    I'm not very busy as a dealer, so I don't have a problem doing a lot of work for "customers" - but, if I was busy, and I received a gun for transfer, log it in, customer comes in and inspects the gun, and says "send it back", what compensation do I receive? Do I charge a transfer fee to send the gun back? Do I make the customer box it up, label the box, fill out the shipping paperwork, log the gun back out, and wait for the UPS/Fed-ex/USPS truck? Do I make the customer give me estimated shipping costs? I think I would have to have some written policy for customers prior to receiving guns for transfer, if I was a high volume gun store, and trying to make a living.


    Charge shipping plus whatever you think is fair for your time. The one I have had to return I was charged the shipping cost plus $20. It was fair to me. It's not the receiving FFL's problem that their is an issue with the gun since they had no part in sourcing or shipping it.
     

    Big Shrek

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    I didn't tell the name of the business because I suspect this is just something the female employee pulled out of her ass as a "I'm in charge" type of thing. I will find out if it is the store's policy and, if it is, I WILL post name and location.

    Garry

    Please do, because if it's a local biz, I will head there straightaway with copies of the regulations.
     
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