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9mm vs .45 ACP: Retro Edition

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  • Ross7

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    "They all fall to hardball." :wink:

     

    MarkS

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    From Jeff Cooper's Commentaries "The 9mm/38 family of pistol cartridges has never been really satisfactory in serious conflict. Of course any sidearm is more apt to be used as a threat than a weapon, but that is not always the case. Today we have a whole regiment of new 9mm Parabellum pistols being offered on the market, but the US Department of Defense has concluded, to no one's surprise, that if a new pistol is adopted for US service, it should be of major caliber. If I were stuck with a 9, I would be happy with a Luger, which is a lovely mechanical artifact and, incidentally, much prettier than anything available today. The Luger has its faults, but as a toy or collector's item, it stands well ahead of the competition.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Ab-so-toot-ly Mark. That includes them spray and pray,butt fuglie 92 Berettas also. Mr. Cooper was a huge advocate of training vs magazine capacity. He felt that a 1911 in the hands of a well trained shooter is all that was needed for close range firefights. Although I do not carry a 1911 anymore I do still reserve the right to agree with any extremely wise man. Mr. Jeff Cooper was/is a legend. ----SAWMAN
     
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    ChrisC

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    Ab-so-toot-ly Mark. That includes them spray and pray,butt fuglie 92 Berettas also. Mr. Cooper was a huge advocate of training vs magazine capacity. He felt that a 1911 in the hands of a well trained shooter is all that was needed for close range firefights. Although I do not carry a 1911 anymore I do still reserve the right to agree with any extremely wise man. Mr. Jeff Cooper was/is a legend. ----SAWMAN

    Obviously Mr. Cooper hasn't shot IDPA. Because if he did, he'd know that you really only need two dinky holes on the threat (cardboard) for it to be neutralized. I bet he doesnt know what a shot timer is either, because whoever has the lowest time, wins the gunfight. Why penalize yourself with a man stopper when you can pew pew away..
     

    MarkS

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    In the interest of full disclosure my carry piece is a 9mm with a 12 XTP's in the magazine and one in the chamber with an extra mag in my pocket.
     

    SAWMAN

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    "Over penetration" . . . ??? What exactly is that ???
    Me ----> as long as my bullet expands properly I want it to go all the way through the BG. I would hope that I would never shoot at a BG if good guy was in the line of fire . . . which I would define as either directly in front of the BG,or directly in back of the BG.
    If you inadvertently kill a good guy that kind negates the need to shoot to save your life. Your life is ruined anyway. Now . . . I am not an authority on civilian shooting. The only shooting that I have ever done,everyone out in front of me was a BG. But I do know people that carry a 44Spec and 357Mags with hard cast. Also guys carry 1911 45's with 230gr ball.
    Which chambering to carry,as well as the specific bullet in that chambering can be debated until the end of time. To each their own I guess. ---SAWMAN
     

    fondblanc1

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    9mm vs 45 acp. What a neat and fresh conversation piece. I own and carry both and thats that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    wildrider666

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    We do not control the how thick or thin the attackers are, what they are wearing, how close or far they are, what they hide behind, their mental state and will to fight or drug/alcohol altered state.

    We try to control where the rounds hit. Since 100% head shot talent is rare on the street, great reliance is placed on magic bullets we hope to put in the upper torso to disrupt function and hemorage (int/ext).

    Plan on your magic bullets to fail resulting in a Ball/FMJ balistic result. If this result is adquate: you have chosen wisely.
     
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    Rapier

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    Obviously Mr. Cooper hasn't shot IDPA. Because if he did, he'd know that you really only need two dinky holes on the threat (cardboard) for it to be neutralized. I bet he doesnt know what a shot timer is either, because whoever has the lowest time, wins the gunfight. Why penalize yourself with a man stopper when you can pew pew away..

    Have you ever shot the absolute classic combat event in a match, the Mozambique Drill, yeah, well you are shooting a timed event, 100%, totally, based on a real life event in Mozambique, in the actual combat experiance and life of Col. Jeff Cooper. By the way, it was a side event at the FIPT, with 3 steel targets, a lock in the A zone chest and an A zone hinged head. Funny how I remembered that. Not all combat matches are HS some are actually life.

    If you have never seen this event, you start with your back to two targets. On the buzzer your turn, draw in clear, DQ otherwise, shoot chest A zone Twice on each of two targest, then shoot A zone head on each target, fastest time. Very simple and is a duplicate of Jeff Cooper running up against a gorilla with body armor in Mozambique, Cooper killed him.
    Ed
     
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