Trump talks with NRA, NRA CHANGES position on No Fly - No Buy

wildrider666 · Jun 15, 2016

Didn't take trump long show his true and origional position on firearms? Remember as you read this iF YOU CAN'T BUY, YOU CANT OWN FIREARMS! The NRA caved on this and left the door wide open: close no fly-no gun but it only works via a FFL. Now close private sale loophole and require full universal background checks. The no fly list has no due process for getting put on, taken off or even notification that your on the list. Current firearms owners would be criminials if caught with a gun and property seized. How many anti government voices will be silenced for fear of being put on the List? The NRA TALKS of due process, investigations, charges and Courts. The entire premise of the no fly list is that there is not enough evidence to charge a person! The Gov can't restrict your movement without due process but they can restrict the method. It was not to long ago the NRA fought anti gun legislation with: A Right delayed is a Right denied! That got the three day rule established instead of an open ended potential wait that could be ripe with abuse. Again they cave!

I'm for killing all terrorists and their lines of support. Strip U. S. Citizenship if not a foreigner,: Put them in a C-5 and air drop them over the sandbox no ID or Passport or money. Just like drug dealers, confiscate all properties and assets. Parents make bad decisions that affect their kids. Too bad get on the plane.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...n/nra-endorses-no-fly-no-buy-gun-sales-delay/

DBCDave · Jun 16, 2016

Oh no lets all vote for Hillery

Viking1204 · Jun 16, 2016

So what exactly is wrong with this, copied from the link you posted. I tend to agree, if you're on a terrorist watch list you've done something to get their attention and before you should be able to buy a gun a full investigation should occur and then you're either arrested for actually being a terrorist or cleared and able to buy a gun. It also states the NRA hasn't changed their position on it so making the assumption Trump caused them to change is here say by the person who wrote the article. At some point we have to do something to better secure our country and if it delays somebody form buying a gun and makes us more safe again I don't see a problem with it. Don't be an idiot and get yourself put on a terrorist watch list.

We are happy to meet with Donald Trump. The NRA’s position on this issue has not changed. The NRA believes that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, period. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place that allow law-abiding Americans who are wrongly put on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the U.S. Senate. Sadly, President Obama and his allies would prefer to play politics with this issue.

wildrider666 · Jun 16, 2016

"and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing.*" This open ended "delay" IS the NRAS position change. A person is INVESTIGATED as that is what decides (though there is no standard of proof required) if assignment to the LIST is "justified". Investigations continue ie Watch List. If at any point LE finds criminal/terrorist crimes/attempts/plots they can make an arrest. I'm not going to lecture on the Constitution or the Bill of Rights but this action steps all over it. There is no Standard Threshold of proof for assignment to the no fly list.

Please note there are TWO totally different Lists: the No Fly List we are referencing and the Terrorist Watch List. Many people and the media use both interchangeable but they are distinctly different. Then there is TIDE which is basically a consolidation.

So how many terrorists are in the U.S.? 100? Lets get wild and say 10,000! Well there are 1.1 Million U.S. citizenship or resident aliens in the U.S. on the Lists. How many do we arrest each month one or two maybe and I'm glad that's happening. I hope the disparity in these numbers is clear. Please research case of abuse with assignments to the no fly list. It has been a used as a vindictive Gov tool just like that of the IRS but the no fly list has less safeguards and oversight. A U.S. Senator was put on the no fly list! He probably didn't have too much trouble getting off but not so for the average Joe.

The bottom line here is that some people are willing to give up Rights and Freedoms without due process for a false sense of security. This is no different then the basic and ever present foundation of every anti gun issue ever presented: surrender XXXX to improve public safety and reduce violence. Is this not the same as. "If it saves just on childs life" but a larger scale? My answer NO, its not worth it!

Little Jack · Jun 16, 2016

Viking1204 said:
Don't be an idiot and get yourself put on a terrorist watch list.

Ah, there's the problem.

What criteria do you think have to be met for you to get put on the list? Brown skinned male with ties to "bad" places?

What do you have to do to get removed from the list?

Once on the list, how long are you on it?

Whether or not the following are your feelings I don't know and really don't care;

I feel like most people don't care about the list because the assume they'll never get put on it because they're white and from the US. If you think I'm wrong, cool. I just don't trust
the gov to have my best interest in mind or to help me out if they mess something up.

Seanpcola · Jun 16, 2016

Yep, it's like the mental health angle. Sure, I don't think anyone unstable should have a firearm but who make the determination and what are the guidelines.

So, you bumped your head when you fell off a bike in the third grade. Mom took you to the ER to be checked. 30 years later someone decides that since concussions may or may not have long term effects a doctor can say you're just too high of a risk. Denied.

SAWMAN · Jun 16, 2016

Unfortunately ... this is the exact reason why so many solders fail to report PTSD. Even with minor problems they are scared of losing their ownership,carry,and even the right to hunt. --- SAWMAN

Viking1204 · Jun 16, 2016

I hear what you guys are saying and with that said then there is no solution. None at least that are feasible. As it stands the whole over bloated government of the United States needs to be dismantled and started over from scratch with safeguards put in place to make sure those put in office adhere to what is outlined in our Constitution. There is so much corruption in our Federal Government that there is no one person or group of person who can clean it up, we're doomed just as many other societies in History were. The big question is will it happen during our lifetime, our children's lifetime, our grandchildren's lifetime, nobody knows.

Little Jack · Jun 16, 2016

Viking1204 said:
I hear what you guys are saying and with that said then there is no solution. None at least that are feasible. As it stands the whole over bloated government of the United States needs to be dismantled and started over from scratch with safeguards put in place to make sure those put in office adhere to what is outlined in our Constitution. There is so much corruption in our Federal Government that there is no one person or group of person who can clean it up, we're doomed just as many other societies in History were. The big question is will it happen during our lifetime, our children's lifetime, our grandchildren's lifetime, nobody knows.

So you're OK with that GOV making the decision about who goes on the list, without any sort of due process, notification or procedure?

You either have Rights, or you don't. This list is some hush hush bullshit that takes away Rights without due process. You're either a criminal or you aren't. The GOV can't (and shouldn't) have it both ways.

Viking1204 · Jun 16, 2016

Jack I'm not ok without any due process but this is our corrupt government at work. The FBI has become a joke. They investigated the guy and determined he wasn't a risk and then after he kills 50 people the media finds all kinds of dirt on him and his father. So the FBI could find the dirt but the media did? What I'm saying is we're doomed, the government is corrupt and without a complete re-build form the start with constitutional guys like the ones who founded this country we're screwed.

Brandon_SPC · Jun 16, 2016

There is so much to comprehend here but here are my thoughts on it. There needs to be a due process on putting people on a watch list but here is the caveat to that….. Our Constitution was founded off people who were considered by the other government as terrorist, rebels, etc. Our Declaration of Independence even advises such… So it goes both was on this one, unless one can show that this person is about to clearly kill people, do bodily harm in the name of this or that then we really have no way of knowing… If the government wanted to they could label militias, business that teach tactical training, survival training, preppers, etc as terrorist groups because we all know why the 2nd amendment was created. So remember this goes both ways we advocate how our 2nd amendment rights don’t stop because of ones feelings but the “terrorist” rights don’t stop either unless proven guilty…. A good thing and a bad thing, depends on who you as, in the same context about the Constitution.

fl57caveman · Jun 16, 2016

Little Jack's Guns said:
Ah, there's the problem.

What criteria do you think have to be met for you to get put on the list? Brown skinned male with ties to "bad" places?

What do you have to do to get removed from the list?

Once on the list, how long are you on it?

Whether or not the following are your feelings I don't know and really don't care;

I feel like most people don't care about the list because the assume they'll never get put on it because they're white and from the US. If you think I'm wrong, cool. I just don't trust
the gov to have my best interest in mind or to help me out if they mess something up.

sen Edward kennedy was on the no-fly list....took him over 6 months to get off of it...

do we have the pull to do that? I think not...

being on a no fly list or "terror" watch list is too easy to corrupt, I say no.

fbi screwed up, and not the first time either....
the solution is to ban all muslims from IMMIGRATING, & kick the overstays of visas out, not to allowed to return

muslim businesspeople with legit reasons, have 30 days to conduct affairs, then get the hell out.

I am caveman, and I approve this message

Ryan · Jun 16, 2016

it's older but Trey Gowdy hits it home

Fletch · Jun 16, 2016

Ryan said:
it's older but Trey Gowdy hits it home

Game Set Match! Need more like him in Washington looking out for us instead of themselves.

Ross7 · Jun 16, 2016

I'll admit to being a bit of a simpleton because I still don't understand why someone on a list who is considered too dangerous to fly, isn't considered too dangerous to stand behind me in line at WalMart. So take away their right to buy a gun, can they still buy a knife? A car? A pressure cooker? An aerosol can and a lighter?

If the Gov. suspects them of being evildoers then they should gather evidence and detain them, not let them walk freely among us.

fl57caveman · Jun 16, 2016

Ross7 said:
I'll admit to being a bit of a simpleton because I still don't understand why someone on a list who is considered too dangerous to fly, isn't considered too dangerous to stand behind me in line at WalMart. So take away their right to buy a gun, can they still buy a knife? A car? A pressure cooker? An aerosol can and a lighter?

If the Gov. suspects them of being evildoers then they should gather evidence and detain them, not let them walk freely among us.

imo, the govt cannot be trusted with who goes on it....all they have to do to put all right wing 501c on list, 5million nra members, any ccw holders, militias, oathkeepers, all to keep them from buying guns...and the terrorist watch list grows exponentially....

dhs, the doj , have said that homegrown right wing extremists are the biggest danger now.., in other words, anyone who loves their country, but hates the govt

keep in mine, scotus is 4/4 now, one liberal or two on the court, bye 1st, 2nd amendments, hello the new democrat socialist party...heil hitlery

donr101395 · Jun 16, 2016

Viking1204 said:
So what exactly is wrong with this

It could be this whole due process system we have in place, maybe it's because not that long ago an audit showed 35% of the terrorist watch list was in error??

I grew up in an America where a person didn't have to prove their innocence, it was the state's job to prove their guilt and rights weren't taken because of something you might do.

Seanpcola · Jun 16, 2016

fl57caveman said:
imo, the govt cannot be trusted with who goes on it....all they have to do to put all right wing 501c on list, 5million nra members, any ccw holders, militias, oathkeepers, all to keep them from buying guns...and the terrorist watch list grows exponentially....

dhs, the doj , have said that homegrown right wing extremists are the biggest danger now.., in other words, anyone who loves their country, but hates the govt

keep in mine, scotus is 4/4 now, one liberal or two on the court, bye 1st, 2nd amendments, hello the new democrat socialist party...heil hitlery

My point exactly.

Brandon_SPC · Jun 16, 2016

fl57caveman said:
imo, the govt cannot be trusted with who goes on it....all they have to do to put all right wing 501c on list, 5million nra members, any ccw holders, militias, oathkeepers, all to keep them from buying guns...and the terrorist watch list grows exponentially....

dhs, the doj , have said that homegrown right wing extremists are the biggest danger now.., in other words, anyone who loves their country, but hates the govt

keep in mine, scotus is 4/4 now, one liberal or two on the court, bye 1st, 2nd amendments, hello the new democrat socialist party...heil hitlery

Hopefully that is when all of us 2A people will...... Nvm I forgot there isn't a due process, I will stay hush hush.. :whistle:

wildrider666 · Jun 17, 2016

Do you fit the profile? 72 typesof Americans that are considered potential terrorists in official gov doc:

http://thetruthwins.com/archives/72...l-terrorists-in-official-government-documents

FBI: You maybe a domestic terrorist if:

http://www.networkworld.com/article...u-might-be-a-domestic-terrorist-if------.html

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Trump talks with NRA, NRA CHANGES position on No Fly - No Buy

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