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Problem with P Mag?

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  • Murfpcola

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    Quick history here. I bought a Bushmaster carbine about 15 years ago while the Brady Bill was in effect. All I have ever had was a rag-tag collection of 10,20 and thirty round mags that I picked up used along the way at gun shows and flea markets. I put between 500-800 rounds through the Bushmaster with out any feed problems that I remember. I have not shot much in the last several years and the carbine just sits in the safe.

    A couple weeks ago I traded a gun I had for a PSA mid length AR 15 with a key mod rail that I am going to use to hunt hogs at night. I put 20 rounds through the PSA when I got it with one of my surplus metal mags. No problem what so ever.

    I decided to pick up some 30 round mags while they are cheap and easy to find. I asked a couple friends and they said the P Mags seem to be the crowd favorite so I decided on them. Tuesday I pick up 9 brand new mags in the plastic from a local source. Yesterday I put 20 rounds of steel cased wolf ammo in the first mag to sight in my red dot. I planned on using the wolf to get it close then switch to the brass case Monarch soft point that I plan on hunting with. I was going to shot twice, adjust, shoot twice, adjust and so on. I shoot once then click. No round in the chamber, pull back charging handle and let it rip. Shoot once then click. No round in the chamber. This goes on for 15 rounds at which point I drop the mag and pet some Remington on top of the wolf just to see what happens. It happens again then I get three shots in a row then another FTF. Recharge the rifle then two shots in a row. Then another FTF.

    At this point I load my metal mag with the monarch soft point and I shoot six rounds without a hitch. Yesterday evening I put 4 rounds of Remington in the PMag and run it through my friends Adams Arms AR pistol without a problem. The 9 magazines that I got appear to be made sept of 2013 if that matters. Being this is the first polymer mag I have used after having no problem with my metal mags is kind of disheartening. Is this a known problem? What should I look for? I did not open any of the other mags. Is there a break in period? This morning I took a stick and pushed the follower down in the PMag several times and it seems smooth as can be and pretty strong? I did some searching on the net about p mag problems and did not see one like mine. The bolt stayed open after the last shell. Thanks in advance for any input, Murphy.



    EDIT EDIT EDIT I was showing this AR to Nate back in October and he informed me that it was not a mid-length but was actually rifle length therefore the dwell time is nearly non existent. This is why it would not cycle low powered steel ammo. It is a very soft shooter though.
     
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    Little Jack

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    any binding between the BCG and the mag? Rub marks on the top of the mag? Do the mags drop free?

    It's not stripping the next round at all? Any indication of the BCG cycling at all?
     

    Murfpcola

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    No it is not stripping the round at all. I did not check to see if the mag dropped free. I will look later for rub marks. I am very ignorant with AR terminology. What do you mean asking if the bolt carrier group was cycling? When I shot, the rifle would eject the spent case and the BCG would return forward to what I would assume is the fully forward position. When I pulled the trigger you can here the firing pin drop but there was no round in the chamber. When I pulled the charging handle back and let it go it would strip a round then and fire normal except after it ejected the spent case it would not strip the next round. This happened 15 rounds in a row. I'm sure I should have paid more attention immediately but I don't know what to look for and at that point I was sighting in my sight so it was working for what I was doing.
     

    Murfpcola

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    I looked at the magazine and there are no signs of rubbing on top of the magazine. I left the rifle at my family's farm in Alabama so I can't really look at anything else tonight. I will be going back over there again tomorrow. I guess if nothing else I will load 20 rounds in the mag. I will then shoot 10 in the PSA and ten in my Bushmaster and see what happens. Any other "signs" to look for when the mag is in the two different rifles?
     

    DGladden

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    Sound like an issue with the gun itself. Either a clogged or possibly leaking gas system. Pmags have a good bit of tension when new. It sounds to me like that extra tension, combined with low gas pressure is causing too much friction between the bolt carrier and top round in the mag. When you switched to a slightly hotter round, you had less problems. Try a thorough cleaning including swab the gas tube. Then run some quality 5.56 Nato through it. I'd be willing to bet it cycles fine then.

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    FNHman

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    Assuming your ammo is discharging at proper cylinder pressures my guess is that your gun could be experiencing too much friction that it's not allowing the bolt to go far enough back to grab the next round from your mag. If cleaning your bolt and insides of your upper don't help, check for gas system leaks, if that doesn't help try to find out out the weight of you buffer and see if some body put a heavier buffer in there for what ever reason.
     

    Little Jack

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    Watch the ejection pattern too. If it's weak(brass not ejecting with much force to the 4 o'clock) that could be gas, friction or issues with both.
     

    Murfpcola

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    UPDATE... Thanks for the input guys. It turns out there is nothing wrong with the PMags. The problem is with the "new to me" PSA rifle. Long story short but I took my Bushmaster carbine over to "the farm" today and did some test firing with it and the PSA. The Bushmaster carbine would fire both steel or brass out of any poly or metal magazine. The "new to me" Palmetto State Armory mid-length rifle would run the brass cased soft nose Monarch in any mag I tried but it would not run the steel in any mag I tried. Something new that happened today is twice I had a spent shell hang up while leaving the chamber. The BCG came back approx. 1/2" and stuck. It was stuck so hard that I had to hold the rifle pointing down with the charging handle depressed on a wood picnic table and bump to buttstock with my fist. when the spent case did come out it did not look any different than the ones that did eject. The steel ammo that I shot Wednesday and today were both Wolf but different types. The ammo Wednesday was the flat gray case and the ammo today was the shiny greenish case. I don't have any special brushes for the AR but I see some in my future. I think I saw a set at Gander Mountain the other day for about $20. Is there any other better place to get them near east Pensacola? Any special solvent I should use? Thanks in advance for the help, Murphy. If it matters my PSA is a mid-length with a 14.7 wylde barrel with a pinned and welded flash suppressor.
     

    Little Jack

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    Steel case is generally weak ammo. The rifles that can run it usually have a larger gas port. Without looking any further I'd guess your barrel wasn't built with steel case in mind. If you really want to run steel cased ammo in that barrel you may need to open up the gas port some. Assuming there's no issue with the chamber, a good scrubbing may help but I don't think that's going to be what fixes your issue with the steel cased ammo.
     

    Dan1612

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    ARs weren't meant to shoot steel. High quality rifles, such as DD, LMT, and BCM will run steel all day long as long as they're clean. If you want a steel shooting machine, look at the 223 Saiga for sale. I owned that and it ran like a sewing machine regardless of the ammo.


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    Murfpcola

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    Thanks Guys. I do not plan to alter the rifle any time soon so I will just clean it good and stick with the brass. I don't shoot very much anyways and the ammo I am hunting with is brass anyways. The wolf is some I have left over from years ago.
     

    Dan1612

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    Also, FWIW, 556 should run better in your rifle than 223, given the higher pressures.
    Also a 14.7 should have a carbine length gas system to run reliably. A 14" middie will be soft with 556 brass but will most definitely give you trouble with weaker loads due to the decreased dwell time. A wylde style barrel is meant to be an accurate shooter with quality ammo, not really a shoot all ammo kind of rifle.
     
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    Little Jack

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    Dan,

    Did you mean carbine length the first time?

    My go to AR is a 14.5 mid length. All else being equal, a longer gas system is going to be lower pressure to cycle the bolt but the combination of gas system length and port size can give you lots of different combinations.

    A mid length system with a small port will probably work fine with high pressure ammo but choke on steel case. A carbine length system with a big port will probably run everything and you'll have a strong forward ejection pattern because the gun is over gassed.

    The above doesn't get into the buffer/spring combos either.

    The AR can be tuned to run whatever ammo you want with however much recoil you want. (Within reason)
     

    Mr. Katanga

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    You might have a buffer spring that is too long or heavy to let the bolt cycle all the way back to strip a round off, I have seen the same thing happen with a PSA midlength and after trimming 2-3 coils off the gun ran perfectly
     
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