Those are two of the advantages. Still looking to see if anyone knows the main reason.

So it didn't fragment "explode" and cause horrific wounds....

Penetrate Russian steel helmet at 600yds

Whether or not your shoot this stuff, it's a slippery slope. ATF has been swinging hard the last six months. What's next on the list?

Maybe they want it all for themselves. LOL

I would guess the answer is somewhere in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO#SS109.2FM855

Droshki said:

I would guess the answer is somewhere in here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56×45mm_NATO#SS109.2FM855

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Yep. I read this about two years ago. Very informative.

BTW, it is good to see someone take the initiative to do a search on the subject. Kudos.

Thanks. It *was* an interesting read.

That said, I never really paid much attention to it in the past. Ive got some mixed in with all the rest of my .556, but its pretty much all the same to me since I'm not a "special operator".

Droshki said:

Thanks. It *was* an interesting read.

That said, I never really paid much attention to it in the past. Ive got some mixed in with all the rest of my .556, but its pretty much all the same to me since I'm not a "special operator".

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I keep my M855/SS109 separated from my M193, my Mk262, and my .223 ammo. Different rounds for different purposes. I also have several hundred rounds of .30-06 AP ammo for my Garand. It may never get used, but it always nice to know that I have it just in case.

The M855/SS109 is great for the 1/7 barrels we have today. It is also great for other reasons like: 1) it can penetrate windshields easily; 2) it can penetrate car doors and some other barriers easily; 3) it is more stable than the M193; 4) it is not as frangible as the M193; and 5) it is a good general purpose ammo. This is just to list a few.

I knew that might come out wrong

It is separated as still in the factory boxes, etc, but if in my mind I was having to decide about barrier penetration or something, I would just go get a .308 gun, and not worry about difference between 55/62/77 gr 5.56.

Now, I know there is the situation that somebody might have only a 5.56 gun.... and have to make it do lots of things...so different types of ammo....but......

Droshki said:

I knew that might come out wrong

It is separated as still in the factory boxes, etc, but if in my mind I was having to decide about barrier penetration or something, I would just go get a .308 gun, and not worry about difference between 55/62/77 gr 5.56.

Now, I know there is the situation that somebody might have only a 5.56 gun.... and have to make it do lots of things...so different types of ammo....but......

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I know what you mean. As you know by now, I have a multitude of weapons and several of them are special purpose types. I have most all of my bases covered. I am a firm believer of using the right tool for the right job.

K

TackleberryMCS said:

I keep my M855/SS109 separated from my M193, my Mk262, and my .223 ammo. Different rounds for different purposes. I also have several hundred rounds of .30-06 AP ammo for my Garand. It may never get used, but it always nice to know that I have it just in case.

The M855/SS109 is great for the 1/7 barrels we have today. It is also great for other reasons like: 1) it can penetrate windshields easily; 2) it can penetrate car doors and some other barriers easily; 3) it is more stable than the M193; 4) it is not as frangible as the M193; and 5) it is a good general purpose ammo. This is just to list a few.

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I just used my brain and horrible memory as my search engine!

Little Jack's Guns said:

Whether or not your shoot this stuff, it's a slippery slope. ATF has been swinging hard the last six months. What's next on the list?

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That's a lot of our problems today as a gun owner group. We have people who say "well I don't have a black rifle" so I don't care if they ban them. Same goes for everything else. We need to stand united. Period! We can't bicker amongst ourselves. We hurt the overall cause when we do it. They had a "million man march" on DC for equal rights. We as gun owners can't even get a percentage of that together.

Why haven't we protested on DC yet. Instead we all bicker and gripe on forums. The politicians don't see or hear this. I'm sure if there was 100k people outside of the White House it would be on every news outlet in the country.

The fact is they take us as a joke. Laughing as we do nothing while they back door us on gun control and keep taking and taking. Soon there will be nothing left to take...

doc

Crazydoc68 said:

That's a lot of our problems today as a gun owner group. We have people who say "well I don't have a black rifle" so I don't care if they ban them. Same goes for everything else. We need to stand united. Period! We can't bicker amongst ourselves. We hurt the overall cause when we do it. They had a "million man march" on DC for equal rights. We as gun owners can't even get a percentage of that together.

Why haven't we protested on DC yet. Instead we all bicker and gripe on forums. The politicians don't see or hear this. I'm sure if there was 100k people outside of the White House it would be on every news outlet in the country.

The fact is they take us as a joke. Laughing as we do nothing while they back door us on gun control and keep taking and taking. Soon there will be nothing left to take...

doc

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Well, just to let you guys know, the ATF is accepting commentary on this proposed ban up until March 15th. I would advise sending them your comments and concerns between now and then. I will be.

TackleberryMCS said:

Well, just to let you guys know, the ATF is accepting commentary on this proposed ban up until March 15th. I would advise sending them your comments and concerns between now and then. I will be.

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This would be a great thing for everyone to come together on.

Here is a link. When you get to the bottom of the document, it gives you all of the options for contacting them.

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi..._primarily_intended_for_sporting_purposes.pdf

Here is suggested verbage from some chucklehead on the web (so it must be true-trust and verify). It is intended for your Congressidiot.

I'm contacting you to express my opposition to the BATFE's letter regarding the designation of M855/SS109, 5.56mm ammunition as "armor piercing."
Per "18 U.S. Code Section 921," M855 does not fit either provided definition of armor piercing as the projectile's core is neither entirely made of any of the listed metals/alloys OR has a jacket weight exceeding 25% of the projectile's total weight. Therefore, M855/SS109 should continue to be exempt as it doesn't meet the criteria defined by law to be armor piercing.
Let me be clear: I would like for you, Senator/Congress(wo)man XXXXXX, to take active measures in reigning in the BATFE's overstepping of authority and take a stand for the good, Constitution-loving people of your state and country. I will be most interested in your response to this and other issues concerning the Second Amendment.
Yours,
XXXX XXXXXX

Here is what I just sent them.

To whom this may concern,

Recently, I have heard and read (ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” WITHIN THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C)) about the newest proposal listing M855/SS109 ammunition as Armor Piercing ammunition. The M855/SS109 round uses a heavier bullet with a steel tip and has a lower muzzle velocity for better long-range performance. This is essential in many of today’s AR15 1:7 twist barrels. These barrels are designed to stabilize this particular type of ammo better than the M193 (55gr. FMJ) ammunition. Many sport shooters use this ammo in addition to the M193. Here is some information I thought necessary to share.

Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 (United States): 5.56×45mm 62-grain FN SS109-equivalent ball cartridge with a steel penetrator tip over a lead core in a partial copper jacket. [green tip]

Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Armor Piercing, M995 (United States): 5.56×45mm 52-grain AP cartridge with a tungsten core. [black tip]

As you can see, one is armor piercing and one is not. I also noticed that this ammunition was referenced being used in a handgun. The handgun has to be chambered in 5.56 NATO to be able to fire this ammunition. The AR15 pistol is capable of utilizing the M855/SS109 ammunition, but it is not the optimal ammunition to be used in the AR pistol. Banning this ammunition across the board is extremely inappropriate and totally uncalled for. Many of us AR15 sport shooters like this ammunition for it accuracy over longer distances. Not being able to obtain it would extremely restrict the abilities of our shooting sport. The M855/SS109 ammunition is the best general purpose ammunition that affordable and that is available on the market today.

I would ask that the BATFE reconsider the language of the ban and address the exemption of the M855/SS109 ammunition as in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C). I also ask that the BATFE look into the accounts where this specific ammunition was used in a handgun, or rifle for that matter, against Law Enforcement Officers, or anyone, recently. Also, in any case that may occurred, was the officer’s body armor penetrated? If so, what level of body armor was being worn? It is important to explore the full scope of the situation. As for the Attorney General, we all know of the agenda that he has been following and whose orders he as been following. We all know that if he had the ability to ban all guns and ammo, he would. Fortunately, we have a Congress that prevents the Attorney General and the President from making their own laws. Unfortunately, we have a President that is doing an extreme amount of damage with his Executive Orders. This a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Many governmental agencies seem to forget this as well. It is not enough to have numerous bans in place on many firearms and ammunition, someone always has to find a reason to impose more. There is a document (United States Constitution) that contains a few important words from the 2nd Amendment. These words are “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.” These words have been ignored for many years. It seems like there is more infringement every time we turn around. There comes a point where it becomes criminal and that point has long passed.

In closing, I have one thing to say, restore the exemption for the M855/SS109 ammunition. It should have never been an issue to begin with.

James Rea
Pensacola, FL

Crazydoc68 said:

Believe me I'm not a fan of this guy, however we as a community can do a lot more in preserving our rights. Look at how many idiots decided to write letters to the ATF after sig had their product ok'd by them. Now look what happens, it's now illegal to shoulder the brace. We have many people on you tube bragging and showing what "illegal" things they are doing. Look at FPS Russia, he made a video of him blowing up something with tanneite. Someone probably figured "well I can out do that" and now we have a dead 8yr old kid because of that. They banned the armor piercing ammo for the FN57 pistol shortly after it hit the market, even though the rifle version used the same ammo, and no one batted an eye. This is a case of slowly bringing the water to a boil so we won't notice. We(as gun owners) have allowed this to happen before and no one did anything or said anything. This is why they will keep banning items until there is nothing left. YouTube is a great tool to have, I've learned a lot of things from it. But it's a 2 edged sword. I say this because we have people on there doing a lot of stupid shit and saying stupid shit. Obama signed it yes, that he is guilty of. The true culprits are the BATFE for even bringing this up to be an issue. Also remember all the talk when 5.45x39 was banned, yeah me neither. It was made an issue for a week then everyone forgot about it. If our pleasure of shooting and owning guns is really important, don't you think we should be staging more sit ins and peaceful demonstrations.

We for the most part are reactive and NOT pro-active.

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it took Hitler 8 years to really get things going...cant take away all the stuff immediately because it will be noticed. Take it all away slowly, and no one will notice.

Well said Dan and James.