AR or AK?

Northman · Jul 19, 2014

I haven't served yet but I have Friends/Family that have been in Iraq and Afghan and there rifles jammed because of very little sand in the action.

I intend to know everything I can before I trust anything with my life. Ive shot both and both are great just the AR15/M16 of any era has been known to have problems, AKs just have a Reputation of never quitting, like the Garand and M14

Little Jack · Jul 19, 2014

Northman said:
1st and Foremost Springfield will always be my go-to rifle over every other pattern. it was used because it didn't have the reliability issue that the M16 had FTE and corrosion issues in the barrel, and the never had any problem like that. the only problem they really ever had was how to make their receivers. also:

"We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his [M16] torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it."

—Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam

to the video that appeared to be a double feed and not a jam

Define "jam" then.

FTE?
FTF?
Double Feed?
Short stroke?
Stove pipe?

You want to group some of the above together? It's never the rifles fault. It's always something else. Ammo, mags etc. because the AK is flawless.

FrankT · Jul 19, 2014

AK's quit all the time, they are left all over the battlefield as throwaways like a Sat night Special...but not to argue just trying to point out facts not stories or hearsay.

Northman · Jul 19, 2014

FTE, broken case with a live round stuck inside of that firing making it worse, stovepipe.
the ak is not flawless just more reliable

Dan1612 · Jul 19, 2014

Buy one of each of anything you might be interested in: AK, AR, M1A, Sig 556, G3 clone, Tavor, maybe SKS, Galil, FAL, or AUG.

Keep what you like. Sell what you don't. That's the MO, at least for me. Lol.

You won't really know until you own and fire each one whether it's a keeper for you or not.
0.02, blah blah.

Clay · Jul 19, 2014

Dan1612 said:
Buy one of each of anything you might be interested in: AK, AR, M1A, Sig 556, G3 clone, Tavor, maybe SKS, Galil, FAL, or AUG.

Keep what you like. Sell what you don't. That's the MO, at least for me. Lol.

You won't really know until you own and fire each one whether it's a keeper for you or not.
0.02, blah blah.

+1 ... You nailed it buddy

Northman · Jul 19, 2014

the reason there throw aways is because there cheap and can be easily replaced.

Northman · Jul 19, 2014

Dan1612 said:
Buy one of each of anything you might be interested in: AK, AR, M1A, Sig 556, G3 clone, Tavor, maybe SKS, Galil, FAL, or AUG.

Keep what you like. Sell what you don't. That's the MO, at least for me. Lol.

You won't really know until you own and fire each one whether it's a keeper for you or not.
0.02, blah blah.

I think that might be the only way to decide here

Little Jack · Jul 19, 2014

Northman said:
I haven't served yet but I have Friends/Family that have been in Iraq and Afghan and there rifles jammed because of very little sand in the action.

I intend to know everything I can before I trust anything with my life. Ive shot both and both are great just the AR15/M16 of any era has been known to have problems, AKs just have a Reputation of never quitting, like the Garand and M14

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/smallarms/p/m1garand.htm

http://m14forum.com/m14/75122-early-problems-m14-rifle.html

Looks like the M1 and M14 went off without a hitch....

The West didn't see an AK until the early 60s. Do you think the AK didn't have any teething problems?

Dan1612 · Jul 19, 2014

For what it's worth, if it hadn't been rained out, I'd be running my AK in the AM.
It's not my favorite, but I don't have to sight it in or worry about anything else, just feed it and fire it, if my experience serves me right, it'll just run. There's value in that for sure.

Little Jack · Jul 20, 2014

Northman said:
FTE, broken case with a live round stuck inside of that firing making it worse, stovepipe.
the ak is not flawless just more reliable

Is that your defnition of "jam"?

Are you defining a FTE or a Stove pipel

Live round inside a broken case? Still inside the chamber? Are you talking about something like this?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/04/30/beware-commercial-308-fluted-chambers/

Most of the time, with the people I discuss firearms with, "Jam" is an all encompassing term for any type of failure. If you've got a specific definition, I'd be interested in hearing it. I'm sure the AK has failed in the same manner as the definition.

Brand new AK or AR. Are you going to trust one or the other more based solely on reputation without taking it out and shooting it?

Northman · Jul 20, 2014

I already said they had receiver issues in the original testing before it was adopted into service
we didn't see them until the 60's because of the Iron Curtain

M1- besides production problems nothing else

M14-firing in full auto, bad idea to begin with making you inaccurate as hell, firing blanks and disengaging the stock when slashing with a bayonet.

Little Jack · Jul 20, 2014

Dan1612 said:
For what it's worth, if it hadn't been rained out, I'd be running my AK in the AM.
It's not my favorite, but I don't have to sight it in or worry about anything else, just feed it and fire it, if my experience serves me right, it'll just run. There's value in that for sure.

Dan, I can say the same for several of the ARs I've built.

My first AK fired and didn't reset. I fixed the problem and it's been fun to shoot since. Am I going to base all AKs on that first shot? No. They're both machines. They can both fail.

The AK has a good "reputation" for reliability because it's over gassed and loose on tolerances. There's trade offs there though.

Dan1612 · Jul 20, 2014

Exactly Nate, gotta own it, gotta shoot it.
My LMT ran over 300 steel case garbage rounds without a hitch, so do I trust it to run my good brass rounds? Heck yeah! However, I have a new optics setup, so it has to be sighted in.

Little Jack · Jul 20, 2014

Northman said:
1st and Foremost Springfield will always be my go-to rifle over every other pattern. it was used because it didn't have the reliability issue that the M16 had FTE and corrosion issues in the barrel, and the never had any problem like that. the only problem they really ever had was how to make their receivers. also:

"We left with 72 men in our platoon and came back with 19, Believe it or not, you know what killed most of us? Our own rifle. Practically every one of our dead was found with his [M16] torn down next to him where he had been trying to fix it."

—Marine Corps Rifleman, Vietnam

to the video that appeared to be a double feed and not a jam

You were referencing AK receivers in this post? I read it like you were talking about Springfield.

The AK had 15+ years of development before we saw it (the iron curtain, yeah). The M16 was still in it's infancy in Vietnam.

Northman · Jul 20, 2014

my definition of jam is when it will not eject like its suppose to or by manual means. as to the reputation if you were to walk me into an armory and said pick and those 2 were my options id go with the AK every time.

Northman · Jul 20, 2014

AK receivers was the reference I was making

Little Jack · Jul 20, 2014

Northman said:
my definition of jam is when it will not eject like its suppose to or by manual means. as to the reputation if you were to walk me into an armory and said pick and those 2 were my options id go with the AK every time.

Failure to eject or extract is a "jam".

Do these videos meet your definition?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzT2OlhUbaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcqEMXXhNbw

Northman · Jul 20, 2014

the full auto one is a Fail to Feed and the other something is wrong with the ejector on the inner left side.

Choppersled · Jul 20, 2014

Which is better, Ford or Chevy? I've got both plus a Harley and a Suzuki and... They all have their advantages and disadvantages. In my humble opinion the AK is a tool and the AR is an instrument.

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