Officer involved shooting II

Clay · Mar 27, 2014

Gentlemen we are going to try this again however personal attacks on each other will not be tolerated. This forum welcomes intelligent discussions, but will not permit members to levy personal attacks on life experience, military experience or professional experience. Enough with the keyboard hero bullshit, state your opinion, respect others and have a quality discussion. It's okay to disagree, everybody needs to put their big boy pants on and not take things so seriously.

Keep the racism and personal attacks off this thread or it will be locked down.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VC9lHoZwfjM

FUPAGUNT · Mar 27, 2014

Good thing they used the bean bags and the dog AFTER they filled him full of lead

Clay · Mar 27, 2014

I watched another graphic video on it, apparently he was still holding on to both knives after been shot.... Guess they were concerned about being stabbed, -look pretty dead to me at that point

FUPAGUNT · Mar 27, 2014

So the judge ruled all that as justified??

zombieh8r · Mar 27, 2014

An armed, pissed off suspect within 10 feet of officers... I'm ok with everything that happened after the knife was pulled. Could it have been handled differently? Absolutely! He seemed to be complying up until they flashed him, then he became agitated and armed. I've never found myself in a armed confrontation, so I'm not going to sit here and play an arm chair quarterback and try to watch the video over and over and try to pick everything apart. These guys had seconds to act without the benefit of hindsight, unlike us sitting behind our computer screens.

Clay · Mar 27, 2014

I believe the police chief and a local judge have determined to be justified, the Department of Justice is investigating and are concerned that it was not justified shooting.

Clay · Mar 27, 2014

zombieh8r said:
An armed, pissed off suspect within 10 feet of officers... I'm ok with everything that happened after the knife was pulled. Could it have been handled differently? Absolutely! He seemed to be complying up until they flashed him, then he became agitated and armed. I've never found myself in a armed confrontation, so I'm not going to sit here and play an arm chair quarterback and try to watch the video over and over and try to pick everything apart. These guys had seconds to act without the benefit of hindsight, unlike us sitting behind our computer screens.

Well said Sir

zombieh8r · Mar 27, 2014

FUPAGUNT said:
Good thing they used the bean bags and the dog AFTER they filled him full of lead

There's verified stories of servicemen continuing in the fight for hours after being shot, or blown up.

HughJoergan · Mar 27, 2014

I would offer that LE is having a bit of a perception issue, otherwise these issues wouldn't be nitpicked to death. My 2c.

Little Jack · Mar 27, 2014

zombieh8r said:
An armed, pissed off suspect within 10 feet of officers... I'm ok with everything that happened after the knife was pulled. Could it have been handled differently? Absolutely! He seemed to be complying up until they flashed him, then he became agitated and armed. I've never found myself in a armed confrontation, so I'm not going to sit here and play an arm chair quarterback and try to watch the video over and over and try to pick everything apart. These guys had seconds to act without the benefit of hindsight, unlike us sitting behind our computer screens.

Taking only the "agitated and armed" situation, I'm inclined to agree.

But given the circumstances I would argue that the cops pissed this away when they flash banged him, and sicked the dog on him as he was appearing to comply. He was goaded/startled into pulling his knives. From the roughly 9 seconds that lapsed from flash bang to his death the only advance he makes is a step in attempting to defend himself from dog bite.

I've never been in an armed confrontation but it's also not in my job description and my job doesn't provide me with the training, tools and authority to deal with this kind of situation. Are the cops trained to deal with this stuff? If so, is the point of the training to de escalate the situation or to terminate the situation? I would hope that termination should only be the absolute last resort. Is it wrong to hold cops to a higher standard? Weapons were already out and aimed at the victim with a significant amount of distance between the cops and the victim. If the cops were more concerned about their safety why didn't they increase that distance between themselves and the victim?

If the citizenry is OK with a shoot like this do you think things like this are more or less likely to happen?

If you believe that cops are here strictly for Law Enforcement and to do that job with minimal danger to themselves, regardless of the impact on the citizenry, then this was a good shoot. Victim was breaking a law, they asked him to stop, he didn't comply, problem solved.

What kind of freedom is it when you can't question the actions (that resulted in a death) of those who excercise authority over you? If the only people that can pass judments on this situation were the cops in the video, where are the checks and balances?

HughJoergan · Mar 27, 2014

It's like lawyers....

The 99% give the 1% a bad name.....

Little Jack · Mar 27, 2014

HughJoergan said:
It's like lawyers....

The 99% give the 1% a bad name.....

At first I thought that was dumb... then I read it... then I wet myself.

BigDaddy · Mar 27, 2014

HughJoergan said:
It's like lawyers....

The 99% give the 1% a bad name.....

Amen sister

Snow Bird · Mar 29, 2014

Not sure if this is the right thread but the FBI is going to look into the shooting of the homeless man buy police in NM. It's on MSN. Good deal.

Droshki · Mar 29, 2014

Yes, the actual facts of the case don't seem to be a popular theme here, but when the FBI is investigation them, and has been for years, some of you might want to start rethinking your positions about what went down:

"The FBI announcement on Friday of a criminal probe into the camper shooting is the first acknowledgement of a Department of Justice civil rights investigation that’s been going on for several years in the city. Albuquerque officers have racked up 23 fatal shootings in the last three years, one of the highest per capita tallies in the country."

More at:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...amper-shooting-as-police-rethink-use-of-force

And by the way, my brother was a cop in this city, so I don't need any cops stopping by to tell me that I don't understand how the APD works.

FelixH · Mar 29, 2014

In my humble and mostly inexperienced opinion, that seemed a bit excessive. Especially considering that they had non-lethal ammo ready for use.
Sure, you pull a knife on a group of cops, you're not real bright and maybe you deserve to be shot. But still, they shot first, then used the bean bags and the dog... seems like it should have been the other way around.
If the bean bags didn't make him comply and submit, then make some holes.

Then again, what happened before the 0:01 mark of that video? I haven't seen it. Was the guy aggressive and combative before the start of the video? That would change everything!

B52 · Mar 29, 2014

I still call it a murder by the cops. All cops were well out of knife range with their guns at the ready. No way for the victim to engage hand to hand quickly on that rough terrain. The cops had a dog and non-leathal shot gun rounds to use and didn't use until after lethal force was used. More importantly if any non-cop (Someone like you or me), were in the same situation with a weird-o in the wild and that video as evidence. A murder arraignment trial would be the next stop.

It reminds me of the post Katrina video where 4 cops (about 250lbs each) attack a 70yr old lady in her kitchen. They told her they were there to help. She was along with plenty of food and water. She told them she had a hand gun for self protection. They asked to see it. When she displayed it butt first they all lunged on her. I think she got off with only a few days in the hospital.

Idoono · Mar 29, 2014

I just hope the FBI truly investigates this and does not do a "whitewash" job.

Idoono

Deersniper270 · Mar 29, 2014

Wow strike what I said. Didn't watch this video. Thought it was the other one. I don't understand what happened. He was coming down and they flashed him and sent in the dog. What were they expecting him to do. I understand he wasn't complying but wow. They instigated that sh!t all day. They could've backed up and let him come down and tried to de-escalate the situation more. No matter how long it takes he made no threatening moves before they flashed him and sent in the dog. I'm speechless...

zombieh8r · Mar 30, 2014

Everyone is so quick to jump to conclusions about cops, just like a few weeks ago when a walton county deputy shot a family's loving pet dog that just wanted to play with him. Atleast that's the story we heard for 2 weeks until video was finally released showing that the family's sweet pet had a neighbor trapped in her car and then charged the deputy when he arrived. Needless to say, I'll wait until all the facts are out. He was obviously combative and a threat from the very beginning if it required a 3 hour standoff. I'm sure he was a nice church going fellow though, he wouldn't of hurt those cops with the knife he raised over his head in a offensive manner on the video.

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Officer involved shooting II

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