DK Firearms

proper charges for my rifle?

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  • JohnAL

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    My father in law gave me a Richland Arms .50 cal. rifle. That's basically all I know about it. He doesn't remember the charge or even the proper bullets or cap size. Can someone enlighten me in case I decide to try to shoot this thing?

    bessie.jpg
     

    Richard J.

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    490 patched round ball. 70 to 80 grains of real black powder. Patch thickness could be anywhere from 10 to 20 thousandth. Looks like a percussion so you will need No. 11 caps. Been into BP for about 50 years now. I hunt with flintlock rifle and pistols. Good luck to you.

    PS. Make sure that barrel is clean and no junk in it from laying around. Sorry I didnt see this before.

    RJ
     

    ilintner

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    Wow Richard... Sounds like you know your stuff Sir!
     

    JohnAL

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    Thanks RJ. I'm getting lazy in my old age and hate cleaning them. I had a replica 1851 Navy many moons ago and sold it. I really don't have a huge desire to shoot this but I thought the grandkids would enjoy it and maybe learn a little history. I guess I'll have to swing by Bass Pro or Dick's and see what's available.
     

    Richard J.

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    What ever you do use real black powder. I am on many muzzleloader forums and we always have some people that claim they can get away with pydrox or some other. Dont do it. After the gun has been shot they need to be cleaned properly. Black powder solvent and barrel grease for storing. Once you learn how to clean them they are quick and very easy to take care off. They are a blast to shoot. I even have a double barrell 12 gauge hammer job made in Italy by Pedersoli. Tightest shooting shotgun I have ever seen. It is a blast shooting small game with it. You cant see what you shot at for a couple of minutes. If you are ever over this way I can try to give you some pointers and look the gun over if you want. Good shooting.

    RJ
     

    wildrider666

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    MAKE Sure barrel is empty! Can you blow through it? If you find a load in it you can try to shoot it out but you got no idea if it's a safe load. Run a "screw tip" down to remove old load or compressed air can be used with caution. I had a .44 Remington hog leg. Fun to shoot, VERY accurate and cleaned up in the sink.
    WR
     

    jakec

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    i have that same gun and one that looks like it but its a .45 with a longer barrel and made by a different manufacturer. i love those guns. i dont think theyre that hard to clean. i i take the barrel off, run some black powder solvent through it, stick it in a 5 gallon bucket of hot soapy water and go to town on it. when im done dry it off, oil it good, put it back on the stock and done. i can shoot it pretty good out to 150 yards. i also have a .45 black powder revolver with an 8 inch octogonal barrel. theyre just fun to shoot. nice gun man.
     

    Richard J.

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    I want you to take the rod out from under the weapon and slide it into the barrel when it is in the bottom take your finger and hold it againt the barrel and the ram rod, dont let go, then pull it out and lay along side of barrel. The ramrod should go to the nipple on the barrel. This is the thing where you put the cap on to fire the gun. If weapon is empty it will go to it and all is good. If loaded I do not recommend shooting this weapon. First off you dont know if it is a single charge or mistakenly double charge and not fired. If somone got a stuck ball in the weapon and had to beat it down the ball it could be so deformed that it will build up large pressure upon firing. This could cause a barrel to blow up or to ring the barrel. ( expansion ring trying to get ball moving). These rings are not always easy to see from the outside but with bore light can be seen. I have seen way to many weapons put away loaded and forgotten. I believe this weapon has a hooked breech ( there are to kinds hooked and patent) so it makes it much easier to clean. If you have any problems I would be happy to give you my phone number. By the way these weapons are easy to maintain and fun to shoot, even for kids because you can reduce the loads which will reduce the recoil. With real Black Powder in weapons you get more push than punch when fired. In-iines are a different story.

    RJ
     

    JohnAL

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    Thanks Richard.
    The ramrod goes to within 3/8" of the nipple so I think it's good. I can blow through it with no effort.

    I assume this is the hooked breech and if so will the breech plug screw out? Time to get the PB Blaster.

    5020cal20breech20plug.jpg


    Funny what the camera flash picks up. There is no visible rust on it.
     

    Richard J.

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    Dont remove the breech plug if you dont have too. Without the proper tools you can mess it up. Weapon needs a good cleaning inside and out. The nipple should be removed and cleaned. This is the piece that usually gets a good build up of carbon from shooting, and they start to rust on the inside faster than the barrel. You can blow air thru them but they can still be restricted. You want as much spark as you can get for ignition. If the nipple is bad you can get them on-line.

    Mr. Fish. Not going to get into a battle over powder. Do some research on a muzzleloader forum. If it works for you, great. 3F powder and a good flint or cap has a faster ignition time. This has been proven many times over. You can use 2F or 3F in these weapons.
     

    Richard J.

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    What am I looking at above the nipple. Is that an indent or a hole. Also look at the face of the hammer to see if it has been defaced, and the alignment is proper. It seems that a lot of these were made with improper alignment. To check set the hammer down on the nipple. It should be center or near center. If it isnt this will cause misfires when the cap absorbs most of the impact. If you intend on shooting it make sure the cap fits tight on the nipple. Some nipples are made smaller. In this case they make a No. 10 cap also. Had a friend that had cap fall off and cost him a nice buck. They should fit snug. Keep me posted. Make sure you give the barrel a real good soaking. Keep me posted on how you are doing.
     

    JohnAL

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    The hole above the nipple is a small recessed screw head. I don't know if it's a set screw or clean out hole or what. It looks like it could be a set screw for the nipple. I plugged the nipple with a toothpick, clamped the barrel in a wood jawed vise and put several ounces of Deep Creep penetrant in the barrel. I'm going to let it sit for a few days before I try anything. The nipple seems pretty clear. The hammer face looks good and looks like it would hit pretty much centered. After it soaks a while I'll see about getting the nipple out. I am a fair kitchen table gunsmith so I'll do my best not to mess anything up.

    I never looked at this gun much before now. Father in law gave it to me because I told him to keep an eye out for any kind of wall hanger. He had switched to inline and said "here, take this." I wiped it down with RIG and it's been hanging on the wall for 10 years. The hex barrel has a very nice polish and blue, better than a lot of new guns today. The stock is a very nice piece of walnut with with an oil finish and lots of heavy brass trim. It has double set triggers with a very nice light break on the final pull. The sights are better than a lot of new centerfire rifles. The rear sight is screw adjustable for windage and elevation.

    He killed quite a few deer in PA with this before he switched to inline. He is 80 and still hunts gun and primitive seasons in PA and NJ.

    I'll keep you posted.
     

    Richard J.

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    To Mr Fish. Pydrox is a slower burning powder than regular Black Powder. What you want with a BP weapon is the fastest ignition time possible. When using an in-line you have direct fire to the back of the charge just like a modern rifle shell. With flintlocks and percussion it gets slower. Now I will try to explain it. Percussion you have to ignite the cap and send spark down a small tube which makes a 90 degree turn then to the powder charge. You would think that all the spark would go down and across at one time. This is not the case. You can lose a lot of it at the cap from hammer bounch and at the 90 elbow. With flintlock you need to create a hot spark that will ignite the pan and then go into a small hole to light the main charge. Therefore you want the hottest and fastest burn possoble with Black Powder. A 50 cal. and use 3 F powder which ignites slightly faster than 2F. Now case harden the frizzen ( what the flint hits) and get more spark. Use a top quality flint for better spark. Now I use a buffing wheel to the parts of the lock to make it as smooth as glass. ( no rough metal = faster lock time. Even the screw that holds the frizzen to the lock gets buffed were the frizzen rides on it. You never ( never ) grind any metal off of the trigger or lock assembly. All that is needed is buffing. Most people think that they have a fast lock time. When you observe people shooting a lot of time you can see a small tick in there face. We watch for this when we are teaching people how to use them.This happens with your sub conscisious telling you it should have fired right now like my standard rifle. With a center fire rifle your bullet is going down range before you have time to move, unless you flinch. Now you have a highly polished lock assembly and a weapon that wii fire on trigger pull. Just like a regurlar rifle you should not know when it is going to go off. A lot more tricks to the trade, but this is some of the basic things you can do to really improve your weapon. I tried to make this as basic as possible. I hope this helps.

    RJ
     
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    JohnAL

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    Went by Bass Pro today and picked up No.11 caps, .490 balls, and some pre-lubed patches, bore brush and swab. No black powder on the shelf. I'll have to call around some other places. Maybe Styx will have some.
     

    Richard J.

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    There shouldnt be a set screw there. My concern is did some one strip the threads on the nipple and drill and tap for a set screw. If this is the case this is not good for shooting in that condition. If this is the case they make oversize nipples that you can drill and tap for. I personally would not trust a nipple locked in with a set screw. Way to much pressure. You dont have to let the barrel set for that long. You can start now with bore brush and patches to clean it up. Get some idea were you stand with it. With the looks of the rest of the weapon if the barrel is bad you can order one from I believe Green River.

    RJ
     

    RackinRay

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    Not sure it is a set screw. Many side lock BP rifles I have owned and shot have a screw in that position. It is intended to allow you to dribble in a few grains of powder in case the rifle misfires to allow you to easily and more safely clear the bore. Rifles above .45 should use FFG as I remember. An instruction manual can be found for the TC side locks at:

    http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/noncurrent/Shooting_TC_Side_Lock_Black_Powder_Guns.pdf

    Some additional information on loads in this one:

    http://www.tcarms.com/assets/manuals/current/Hawken_Manual.pdf
     
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