Bead vs ghost ring

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  • joe

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    I saw a nice little SD shotgun today for cheap but it is not tapped so I could not add a picatinny rail, ghost sight etc.... I know I do not want rifle sights.

    For SD weapon which type of sight do you prefer. Bead vs ghost ring. I like the idea of the ghost rings but not sure the increased accuracy would out way the obstructed sight picture for me.

    The way I normally use a shout gun all shots would be 50 yrds or less. All I have ever used are bead sights. Usually when shooting moving objects I shoot with both eyes open. Of course not when I was shooting slugs.

    I killed my 2nd deer with a 20 ga slug as a kid but its been years since I have shot any. I think I will go shoot some this week to see how I do with just a bead.

    Joe
     
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    Gravity3694

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    I prefer rifle sights but given the choice I'd take ghost rings over bead. I like the ability to adjust sights rather than having to memorize holdovers for buckshot and slugs.
     

    Marquezj16

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    I have both types. At close range <25 yards, it does not matter much which one I use. Push out to 50 or so and the ghost ring has the advantage.
     

    donr101395

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    On a SG I prefer either a bead or rifle sights in that order. I never have cared for ghost rings on a shotgun. Sights are very much an individual preference.
     

    avtech850

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    ^^^^^^ plus one on this! I don't really mind any of the siting systems on a shotgun. In fact I plan on mounting a Trijicon rmr on my 590 in the near future. I do however like being able to adjust my sights too the poi of the rounds that I am using in that particular gun. Any decent smith should be able too drill and tap your gun for you though if you are unhappy with just a plain bead site.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    Quite a few years ago I was a combat shotgun instructor for the military. We used the Rem 870's and Ithaca Mod 37's. Our guns were outfitted with a rear ghost ring and a front post.

    Our ranges were 7,15,and 35yds. (IMO if you are shooting 50yds with a shotgun,you need to switch to a carbine) We shot what a shotgun is supposed to shoot ..... SHOT. That's why they are called SHOTguns. We used exclusively the military 9 pellet "OO" Buck.

    We quickly found out that with proper,and consistent,cheek weld,the front post was not needed. In fact,we took most off our guns and taught the course without them.

    Radical ...?... Not in my opinion. All it takes is training. --- SAWMAN
     

    avtech850

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    Sawman, shotguns are a glaring gap in my training so I always try too ask as much as possible from guys that are more familiar with them then I. I know you said yall used and taught with military buck out to thirty five yards, but have you ever used the federal flight control stuff? I've read a couple of AAR'S on another forum where they used it out too 75 yards. I've never pushed it any where near that far, but I was curious if you had or had talked to anybody that had.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Sorry sir ... not me. All the newer stuff came after I retired. Also,our guns were all choked cyl bore.

    I would also acknowledge that there are some great loads of buck AND slugs on the market today. BUT .... just gotta say again,if you feel that you need a slug,use a 45-70 or one of the .458" or .500" semi autos. --- SAWMAN
     

    avtech850

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    Oh I completely agree with what you are saying about that kind of range really needing a carbine. That's honestly why there is such a large skills gap for me. I never really saw the need for it. But like I said before, I had read a AAR posted on another site that talked about a class put on by Steve Fisher teaching them too run a scatter gun out that far, and when you stated your experience I figured it wouldn't hurt too ask. Thank you!
     

    hey.moe

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    As always, it depends what you intend to do with the gun. If it's strictly SD in your home, the odds are pretty good that you'd never take a shot further than 20 yards, and a bead is fine for that. However, if you ever want to participate in a tactical shotgun class, or maybe compete with the gun, you'll probably find the ghost rings pretty handy. In that case you may want to also consider having the barrel modified (ala Vang Comp) to take advantage of the increased precision ghost ring sights afford.

    -Stan-
     

    HayesGreener

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    Bead and rifle sights are OK to a point for a defensive shotgun but Ghost ring and front post sight will give you a lot of flexibility in your self defense shotgun, especially if you are over 40. We have a defensive shotgun course that ranges from 100 yards with slugs down to 7 yards with birdshot and various ranges in between and we get surprising speed and accuracy out of the shotgun with ghost ring and front post sights.
     

    RidgeRunner

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    To me sights / shotgun = oximoron I don't even see a sight when I shoot a shotgun , if you look for a bead or sight you are too slow. I figure if you need sights on a shotgun you need a rifle. And for home defense even worse, why would you possibly need sights for home defense? If you are shooting 50-100 yards I think it would be offence?? But if someone is snipeing your house from 50 - 100 yards, I really don't think i would grab a shotgun. I know you instructors have to have a wide brush and cover all bases to increase your potential income ratio, and what folks ask for, and that is OK , give em what they ask for.I can see sights for slug use in hunting, but that is about all I would need them for. JMHO but TETO + WWIC
     

    avtech850

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    I'm about as far away from an instructor as you can get, but I'm not seeing the logic behind what you are saying. It doesn't take me any more time to find the sites or ghost ring on a shotgun than it does on a pistol or rifle. Even as close as 7 yards I am just as fast with a ghost ring than a bead front site. I could see what you are saying if you were going to be shooting birdshot but not modern slugs and buckshot.
    It's been my experience that the only thing slow about a shotgun is the reloads and switching from buck to slug or vice versa.
     

    HayesGreener

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    To me sights / shotgun = oximoron I don't even see a sight when I shoot a shotgun , if you look for a bead or sight you are too slow. I figure if you need sights on a shotgun you need a rifle. And for home defense even worse, why would you possibly need sights for home defense? If you are shooting 50-100 yards I think it would be offence?? But if someone is snipeing your house from 50 - 100 yards, I really don't think i would grab a shotgun. I know you instructors have to have a wide brush and cover all bases to increase your potential income ratio, and what folks ask for, and that is OK , give em what they ask for.I can see sights for slug use in hunting, but that is about all I would need them for. JMHO but TETO + WWIC
    You are correct to prefer a rifle at distances but some folks may not have a rifle available or may not want to use it for home defense. If a shotgun is your preference or all you have available, it will do the job nicely out to 100 yards and more if you have the skills and the right equipment. A shotgun gives you the option of using buckshot or birdshot at inside the house distances where over penetration is a concern, and greater range with slugs if necessary. Conversely you cannot put buckshot in your carbine. The shotgun loaded with buckshot is highly effective out to 25 yards and the average shooter can hit pretty consistently with slugs at 50 to 100. We spend a lot of time on speed reloads and transitioning from buckshot to slugs and back again in our training program to help shooters get the maximum flexibility from their shotgun.
     

    RidgeRunner

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    I can see sights for slug use in hunting, but that is about all I would need them for. JMHO but TETO + WWIC

    No Offence intended to anyone,
    and yes it does take more time to find your sights,
    I guess to me shotgun means something differant than to most, I understand combat shotguns, but really don't consider slugs for that senerio. I always consider buckshot, OK. for distance, slugs, sure if that is all the gun you have, but why on earth would it be, to me that is borderline crazy??? Don't take it wrong, a shotgun is a deadly combat weapon in its place, and home defence is one great place for it, but I don't need sights for that , familiarity / comfortability with the weapon , and if you are in a dark room you can't even see the sights anyway. You should be able to jump, tuck, roll and blow the head of an intruder with a hip shot. LOL JK on that one.

    For hunting, dove, birds, ducks, squirel and skeet I have wayyyyy better luck instintive shooting than aiming using a bead or sight. I do not even see a sight when shooting a shotgun. I cheek weld and aim with my eyes, the gun and instinct does the rest. I have done really well in competive shotgun shooting speed events, and others that would beat the stew out of me on the pistol coarse, would ask me what sight picture I used to get through the string that quick, my answer was always, "what sights, I don't even see them." That is only because , I love shotgunning and am pretty comfortable with one. I wish I would get that comfortable with a pistol.
     

    avtech850

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    I can't speak for anybody else but I wasn't offended in the least. Isn't the exchange of information and methods the whole point of a forum anyways? I was more curious too the reasoning behind your comment about sites in a defensive/offensive roll.
    I do however agree with you when it comes to site picture when you are hunting too a certain degree. My little brother shoots birds and clays instinctively, and giving credit were it's due the little turd is deadly with that method.
    As too why somebody would only have a shotgun though; While most leo departments are on board with issuing carbines, there are still more than a few that only issue standard plain jane 870's to their officers. In that instance it only makes sense learn to be as proficient as possible on the given platform.
     

    TraderDan

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    I feel sorry for thoese departments, in these times seem like asking to get you help killed. I can only figure it to be a money thing?.
     

    avtech850

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    I think it is less of a money issue and more of a political calculation. I'm not about too get involved discussion about that though. A top tier AR can be had and outfitted for less than 2k. Even cheaper if you know we're too look.
     

    Hipower

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    If you are going to carry a long gun into a certain situation where you feel it is needed, you aren't going to carry two long guns, so if all you have with you at the time is your shotgun and you have trained with it to use shot AND slugs, sights are more valuable if you use slugs at a distance. Your targets distances may vary from close to far and the slug is good for the distance and greater penetration if you need it. Sometimes the bad guy's cover isn't penetrated by shot, but will be penetrated by slugs and for that YOU NEED SIGHTS. As others have mentioned, it is easy to NOT SEE sights as you can easily look past them especially when the target is big and looming right at you, but if you need to take your time and make your shot county, you WILL SEE the sights you have if you need them. It's better to have them and not need them then need them and not have them. It's easy to point and just put a front sight on your target without using a rear sight. The shotgun is so versatile because of its ammo variety and its distances. It's easy to say if you need to shoot 75 yards, to grab your rifle, but you may not have it around, or you grabbed the shotgun first because that is what you thought you needed, or that is the only ammo you had left. Maybe you gave your partner the rifle, etc., etc. Be prepared to use both.
     

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